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Which road course slicks would you track with?

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Funny you ask Bill. With the Contis I was starting in the low 30's but when my Pirelli friends heard that they thought I was crazy. They are starting in the low/mid 20's which I thought was way too low. But I did start at 29 psi and noticed better grip and less warm-up. I would love to know what others are using.

Well I have yet to run the conti, saving those for VIR end of feb. I’ll just look up some recommendations for warm psi and set them 6 lb or so below that when cold.
Pirellis I started at 25ish... I read started anything lower than 24 could damage them? They would sit around 30-31 after a session which I read was ideal for heavier cars.
Did the conti recommend a mid 30 warm pressure?
 

Mad Hatter

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Tried all kinds of pressures with the Conti P2000 tires. Could not get them to grip in any kind of cool weather.. With the last batch, tried to keep them at 31 psi with little success.. One set would last about 3 hours on track... Great price, but as a practice or fun tire.. really not a competitive tire. A R7 is on average 2 seconds faster and will last much longer. The A7 is awesome, but for 20min races they wear out too fast for my budget, great for Timed events though.

Full disclosure.... We are the Hoosier reps down here in Chile, so I might be inclined to be biased!:).

Has any body tried a Zestino slick??? Though they sound more like a drift tire.
 

TymeSlayer

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Welcome aboard Harry. You'll love the info these boys will share. I can't help you because I haven't graduated up to slicks yet.
 
Tried all kinds of pressures with the Conti P2000 tires. Could not get them to grip in any kind of cool weather.. With the last batch, tried to keep them at 31 psi with little success.. One set would last about 3 hours on track... Great price, but as a practice or fun tire.. really not a competitive tire. A R7 is on average 2 seconds faster and will last much longer. The A7 is awesome, but for 20min races they wear out too fast for my budget, great for Timed events though.

Full disclosure.... We are the Hoosier reps down here in Chile, so I might be inclined to be biased!:).

Has any body tried a Zestino slick??? Though they sound more like a drift tire.
Good info, I wonder how much different the g6500 will be compared to the 2000 compound.
I’m spoiled with the pirellis
 
F4CE79B7-FC46-4EF2-8AEF-59FCFE854103.jpeg01CB4C5D-39EB-48DA-932A-C0E2403CACE8.jpeg We normally start the Michelin's at around 22 lbs. Yes, its low but the Michelin's heat up fine and we top them out around 30 lbs.

Never tried Pirelli's but I believe the Michelin's are comparable. Seems like cheating at times. They are definitely a step up from Hoosiers.

The Michelin scrubs are fairly reasonable and wear decently.
 
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Mad Hatter

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Wish I could get Pirelli scrubs... Can't import used tires because of the threat of importing mosquito born diseases :(

Nice Car!!
 
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OK, here you go...I was going to respond to this when they did the makeover.
A couple of things to keep in mind that never change.. "old tracks need new tires, new tracks need old tires" if you are running old tires on an old track, you will never get the optimum performance out of that car.
18 inch is the way to go, if you can pull it off, there are thousands of cherry takeoffs in 18 inch available at reasonable prices, as an example, Phoenix catalogs their tires by heat cycle, track and set, so if you go to them they can (usually) tell you a car had 3 heat cycles at Sonoma in 3 , 20 minute practice sessions, OR 1 heat cycle in a 40 minute race..that kind of thing. Some of their tires are qualifying only and have less than 6 laps on them, including the in and out.
A harder tire will not stop blistering, as an example, in IMSA, around 2013, Indy repaved the track and the tires were blistering during tires tests, there. The answer was a SOFTER compound tire, not a harder one, and the problem went away, generally blistering is relative to tire loading not so much compound.
The difference between brands.. Conti/Hoosier are much more consistent than Pirellis ever will be, where at first blush the Pirellis seem to be faster (they are), they also fall off precipitously losing seconds per lap, Conti/Hoosiers will never do that, they will gradually degrade over time and do not drop off the planet like Pirellis. As far as Michelin, I'll know more this week , so I have no opinion on them, but it seems like they act a bit like Pirellis, from reports.
Again, hot target pressures ALWAYS dictate cold pressures, artificially inflating tires for a good out lap is a false economy, and besides, you shouldn't be driving like a madman on an out lap anyway.
I'm not at liberty to discuss tire pressures, that's proprietary but you already know how to do that on your own, because I've showed you how, I'll just say take most manufacturer's recommendations with a grain of salt, they are waaayyy on the safe side.
Right now, for track day stuff, I'd just go with something consistent like the BFG tires, they work great and last quite awhile, you're not actually racing anyone and don't follow a rules set, the last thing you need is a tire war at a track day event. Besides, I'm pretty sure I can get most of you about 2 seconds over whatever you run now with a set of stickers and playing with pressures. I found 3 seconds for a Phoenix guy at the SCCA Majors that way, no other changes, so just don't get into the whole tire war thing, if you want to, it's time to buy a competition car and spend some serious money.
A7 > R7 in almost all aspects, except longevity, if you run an SCCA race, which are standard 40 minutes, the A is the way to go, although there are some good attributes for the R, but it all comes down to tire management, and having a person that specializes in tires working for you...., you're not running nitrogen, you're not running temps and pressures every 6 laps, you're not record keeping every track you go to...Just run the the BFGs and be happy that you aren't hosing away$1500 every track day.
Also 22 psi is not low..17 psi is the lowest I have ever sent a car out on, and don't do that unless you have wheels made especially to accommodate that, like CCW endurance wheels, and the driver is clued in to what you are trying to do, because again..hot ALWAYS dictates cold no matter what, there is no escaping the math.
EDIT..I lied 15.5 is the lowest, I sent a Porsche out on that at Laguna Seca, but be very cautious about doing that because you can get into big trouble.
 
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Bill Pemberton

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Can't wait to hear your Michelin Report BS1, as my feeling is they are a tad quicker than the Pee Rellis , but who am I to judge when we can get the Rubber Donut Guru to give us real insight! Thanks, as always, for your insightful posts, and gotta believe plenty of TMO Motorheads are going quicker at the track using your comments on tire management!
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Bingo Doc, especially if a cool day I like to start higher and that way it takes less time to get to optimal track temp.

This is essentially opposite of what I'd do on a cooler day, based on my chart and what I've learned from Rob.

A higher cold pressure on a cooler day will warm up faster, but will result in too high a pressure once up to operating temp.
 
Bingo Doc, especially if a cool day I like to start higher and that way it takes less time to get to optimal track temp.
Good to know @ tires warming up quicker with higher pressures. Spinning out on cold tyres in front of millions of dollars worth of cars - STRESSFUL for all.
The pressure sure climbs with heat.
My LS square set-up with different offsets fr.&rear prevent rotating fr. to rear. Wish I had BBS 10X18 for more tire options than my 10X19s.
 

Bill Pemberton

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Grant , going with higher temperature on a cool day does not mean one jumps a bunch in pressure , yet starting higher does mean during a race they are up to temp a bit sooner. I set my best time at Topeka on a cool day , and started 2 lbs. higher . So a major change would likely cause what you suggest, but I normally recommend to other racers in the cool Midwest to just bump it within reason.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
That only shows me that you probably don't log or chart pressure vs temperature like Rob has taught.

Sure, that's okay...but seems a bit unusual to me when you are often advising people to follow Rob's advice as a paid professional pit crew member.

I get that most people don't have the time and inclination to take accurate probe temps and to set cold pressures based off what a chart says...but it absolutely works for track use and prevents the need to monkey with pressures and bleeding throughout the day as it gets warmer.
 
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I think you are both right, bumping PSI to get up to temp faster on a cooler day works, but only for a few laps, and you need to put a good one in within a few laps because once the pressure normalizes, you will find that it's too high to actually run on, and is also a sure way to ruin a set of sticker tires.
Normal temperature compensation is usually in tenths of a psi not a wholesale number.
Charting or "mapping" of temp/psi is one way to make an informed decision. If you are making psi changes throughout the day (not including tuning changes) you're not doing it right.
 

Bill Pemberton

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It was quite cool , ( 40s ) and I checked after the race and the temps were where I liked them. I needed the tires up to temp sooner as the BFGs do not warm up as fast as the Hoosiers, but they seem to stay more consistent on a long run.

No biggie, BS1 is my hero , but as he noted we can both be right and track and weather conditions are what make me observe this view.
 
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Apologies for reviving an old thread...

Looking for some advice and input on Toyo RR tires.

I recently advanced from HPDE into TT with Nasa and I plan to buy a set of Toyo RRs with the HPDE reward program. I have never ran these tires nor any slick or R comp for that matter. I understand that they aren't as fast as an A7 or take off slicks but what can I expect as far as wear, warm up time, number of heat cycles, ect?

For reference, my tire experience includes: PS4S, S007A, and GY SC3
 

Apex Wheels

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Apologies for reviving an old thread...

Looking for some advice and input on Toyo RR tires.

I recently advanced from HPDE into TT with Nasa and I plan to buy a set of Toyo RRs with the HPDE reward program. I have never ran these tires nor any slick or R comp for that matter. I understand that they aren't as fast as an A7 or take off slicks but what can I expect as far as wear, warm up time, number of heat cycles, ect?

For reference, my tire experience includes: PS4S, S007A, and GY SC3
Faster than anything you've ran on before. They are about 1 second faster around Thunderhill East compared to similar sized NT01s on my personal car. I've only put 5 or 6 heat cycles on them but the wear is pretty decent all things considered, maybe get 20 total out of them if I'm nice? It starts with only 3.7/32nd so never going to last a long time. If Toyo could make these with 6-7/32nd, it would be a killer tire since there's no tread to squirm about. They need an out lap at 50-60% pace, then are pretty much ready as long as it isn't really cold out.

The Nasa/Toyo partnership is very nice for those price wise, even more so if you can run 295s as they're oddly cheaper than any other size.
 

Bill Pemberton

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Ewheels........ if you are going to Time Trials with NASA there is a huge bonus factor for the Toyo DOT competition tire. It could help you lose some weight in the car and even bump HP , yet be in a very competitive Class for the Mustang ------ you would likely be in TT3. Any questions feel free to drop me a note and keep in mind the Toyo RR is a DOT competition Tire, so it is quite sticky , but it is not as full blown racing slick. If you want to be competitive in Time Trials , it is a good choice in NASA , but if running in SCCA Time Trials the rules and situations are quite different.
 
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