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Blacksheep Hates Watts Linkages

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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
I hope to have my friends 2013 GT racing against me next month.. we have very similer suspension setups but he has the Cortex torque arm and Watts link. But I think he is a better driver so not a very even test.

Mean time setting up the suspension following AJ's suggestions. 500#/300# springs etc instead of 600#/350#.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
It'll be nice to see video if you spend any time chasing each other.

I know it would be a more costly option...but I would have gone for more aero before going to softer springs. You aren't limited regarding aero upgrades if I understand correctly.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
I am not limited in any way on anything!!!! (budget yes!! Very!) the springs were a cheap option to try out in any case, had them for quiet a while now.. We will probably flat bottom the under side of the car as much as possible since we are re-doing everything any way!

Hope to have a video for the May race.
 
6,362
8,185
There are other boards for that kind of talk guys :p...please don't make me put my moderator hat on. :D

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Roll center adjustment range and eliminating roll center migration are the best reasons IMO to use a watts link. And you don't get the latter without the diff side propeller (like Fays2 or BMR). Driver confidence would be second. And maybe tire clearance by keeping the axle better centered.

It would be nice if somebody, anybody, could actually 'prove' that a watts setup was faster...I mean it *should* be. But there is no solid proof, by somebody qualified to do a direct comparison that would be 'better' or more definitive than the info from Rob and AJ.

For some, perhaps driver confidence is the best benefit. The little lateral movements can be unsettling to anyone not comfortable with the way a panhard bar moves or how it changes in left vs. right turn behavior as the body rolls and changes 'jacking' effects. The watts is certainly more consistent overall. Just not 'better' IMO when looking at absolute grip limits...particularly in left hand turns.

Well..actually..as I recall from about 5 years ago at Palm Beach, we did a test between a Watts and a PHB, there was little or no difference, but the Watts had all sorts of other issues. This is as I remember it, we ran nothing but PHBs, and there was maybe 1 watts car in the field in PWC.

I think, if you want to solve the major problem with the watts, you would have to do something like machine the diff housing flat, do the same with the watts cover, put studs in the diff housing, then drill and dowel the cover so it wouldn't move. That would be a start anyway.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Well..actually..as I recall from about 5 years ago at Palm Beach, we did a test between a Watts and a PHB, there was little or no difference, but the Watts had all sorts of other issues. This is as I remember it, we ran nothing but PHBs, and there was maybe 1 watts car in the field in PWC.
That's exactly what I was talking about. I don't think anyone else has made a better direct comparison than you guys did. AJ outlined it earlier in this thread.

I think, if you want to solve the major problem with the watts, you would have to do something like machine the diff housing flat, do the same with the watts cover, put studs in the diff housing, then drill and dowel the cover so it wouldn't move. That would be a start anyway.
Great suggestions. I think you're right it needs to be made more race-like purpose built and less enthusiast bolt-on like all the current offerings.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Does Blacksheep hate the torque arm as well???

I think it was discussed a bit in the squat thread...or I seem to remember when my CRS isn't acting up.

But maybe not Rob's discussion...

Could be worth another thread if you want to start one. And I'll try to refrain from correcting the internet. :rolleyes:
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
939
712
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
Well..actually..as I recall from about 5 years ago at Palm Beach, we did a test between a Watts and a PHB, there was little or no difference, but the Watts had all sorts of other issues. This is as I remember it, we ran nothing but PHBs, and there was maybe 1 watts car in the field in PWC.
This makes sense. There's a very small difference in geometric axle steer between a PHB and either Watts link arrangement. At least in the S197's case, a diff-mounted WL has a little less roll steer per g, an axle mounted WL a little more.


Wasn't getting notices of reply, still not sure that I am/will.

Norm
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
What are the limitations of the stock panhard bars for a 2013 era s197?

I went from that to a Fays 2 and hell, I'm thinking of swapping it back out for VIR in a couple weeks to see if the weight reduction matters more than the watts link. For the PHB fans, are you running stock or not-stock?
 

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