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Thinking about picking up a S197 4.6L 3V

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Hello

Some of you may remember me from a few years ago

I was the original owner of a 2012 Boss 302 (#1605 in Kona Blue - if someone knows it's current whereabouts I'd be interested to know)

I really enjoyed that car and am thinking about getting another S197

Like the title says, I'm thinking more and more about getting an older 05-09 S197 with the 4.6L 3V and was curious if anyone might be willing to share some their opinions on these vehicles

Based on my preliminary research I have come across some of the basic things to be mindful of and/or look out for on the older cars such as:

1) Earlier cars with the older heads and two-piece 16mm spark plugs that are prone to cracking upon removal versus later cars with updated heads and 12mm spark plugs

2) Door panel trim that is susceptible to peeling

3) Water leaks

4) ICE head unit issues

Anyhow, I was hoping I might get some more input on the 4.6L 3Vs and TR-3650 transmissions with respect to their reliability, tolerance to heat, etc.

Both the Roadrunner and MT-82 in my old Boss ran extremely well and I never experienced any problems with them, however, I realize that has not been the case for others

The only issue I ever had was an intermittent engine code which was quickly and easily resolved with an o-ring added to the CPS (taken care of by Ford - I believe there was a TSB for this)

The only change I made to improve engine cooling was the Boss 302S grille, however, I also used to live in the northeast where it is a lot cooler than where I am now

I realize that the 3V makes a lot less power than the Coyote/Roadrunner and that a NA 3V build can get somewhat expensive for only relatively modest gains

Nevertheless, I can't seem to help being drawn more and more to the original S197 design

In any case, I would be extremely grateful for any thoughts or guidance on these matters
 
I had a 2007 4.6 that I tracked. Never overheated. Nothing. My engine had a tune and a cold air kit but nothing else. I popped the plugs out - the 2 piece ones - with an impact gun at 60K miles with the engine warm. I did this after after a soak with Seafoam. Plugs came right out with no issues but I was sweating it.

The trans seemed bulletproof and the diff ran fairly cool. 14 inch front brakes are a breeze to install. Tons of chassis parts available - as on all Mustangs. The door trim that peels, peeled as expected. Scrape off the roached foam and glue the vinyl pieces back on with spray upholstery adhesive and you are good to go. As with any older car, look for rust underneath, lack of maintenance ect. Usual stuff. Leather seats show wear on the driver's left side bolsters but a good upholstery shop can make it like new again.

I could drive it to the track, run the heck out of it and drive it home again with no issues at all. Lower hp cars can be a blast at track-days.
 
Welcome back. I say go for it.
 
I could drive it to the track, run the heck out of it and drive it home again with no issues at all. Lower hp cars can be a blast at track-days.

Eric

Thanks so much for the feedback

Like you said, I do see some potential advantages with running a lower HP car so that I can focus more on the driver mods

Another plus is that since I'm already familiar with the S197 chassis, planning upgrades should be fairly straightforward for me

AFAIK, the only significant difference in the suspension design between the early S197s and my Boss is the shorter rear upper control arm

I'm in the Miami Beach area so perhaps I'll get a chance to see you at the track at some point

Another potential benefit is that there appear to be a lot of well known Mustang tuners and shops around here such as PBTH, BBR and Steeda to name just a few

If there are any places you might recommend or suggest I avoid, please let me know (feel free to PM me, as well)

Anyhow, thanks again

George
 
Eric

Thanks so much for the feedback

Like you said, I do see some potential advantages with running a lower HP car so that I can focus more on the driver mods

Another plus is that since I'm already familiar with the S197 chassis, planning upgrades should be fairly straightforward for me

AFAIK, the only significant difference in the suspension design between the early S197s and my Boss is the shorter rear upper control arm

I'm in the Miami Beach area so perhaps I'll get a chance to see you at the track at some point

Another potential benefit is that there appear to be a lot of well known Mustang tuners and shops around here such as PBTH, BBR and Steeda to name just a few

If there are any places you might recommend or suggest I avoid, please let me know (feel free to PM me, as well)

Anyhow, thanks again

George

Good luck with the project car! I have not used any of the east coast shops. I do nearly all my own work and my tunes came from Bama for my nearly stock engine. I ran Sebring with the 3.55 rear geared manual and it fit the track pretty well although I needed 2nd to pull the hairpin. Maybe 3.73's would allow 3rd gear there and a few more revs at 2,3,4 for a better launch out of 5. At Sebring you'll be flat on the gas a lot with a 4.6.

I think PBIR and Homestead would work with 3.73's as well.

Grant makes a good point, if a nice '11 V6 with a manual falls across your path, might be a available at a nice price! Easier to install headers on a V6 I understand.
 
Welcome back. I say go for it.

Thanks, Rick

I was planning on getting a S550 Mustang, but for a few reasons I'm probably going to avoid it

The biggest issue for me with the current generation is lack of headroom with the stock seats

I've sat in just about every model and seat variety

My head touches the roof in each unless I recline the seat back significantly and that's without a helmet

Anyhow, thanks for the kind words

George
 
I’d rather get a 2011+ V6... just my crazy opinion though![/USER]

Hi, Grant

On paper it definitely makes a lot of sense, but I know I'd miss the sound of a V8 too much

Either way, if I do decide to buy another S197 I suspect you'll be around to help me spend some money on the inevitable upgrades ;)

EDIT - I don't know why my reply ended up in blue - Attempting to change
 

Boone

Professional Thread Killer
I own an '05, and have been down the NA road with my car. It's a whole lot of money per hp for NA improvements. If you do opt for the best looking Mustang body style ever (IMBiasedO), I would recommend running it pretty stock and dropping a supercharger on it when you want the bump in power. Others have proven the temps can be dealt with, and I'm heading down that path now. Go Hokies, and if that's not what the VT stands for, go Hokies anyway.
 
I own an '05, and have been down the NA road with my car. It's a whole lot of money per hp for NA improvements. If you do opt for the best looking Mustang body style ever (IMBiasedO), I would recommend running it pretty stock and dropping a supercharger on it when you want the bump in power. Others have proven the temps can be dealt with, and I'm heading down that path now. Go Hokies, and if that's not what the VT stands for, go Hokies anyway.

Boone

Thanks for the input

Interesting that you should mention the body style as I suspect that's a big reason I'm considering an older S197 because as much as I hate to admit it, looks are important to me

When the '10 redesign came about I thought it was an improvement and the same in '13 (at least in the rear)

Now I seem prefer the simpler (albeit boxier and probably a little less aerodynamic) lines of the '05-'09 cars

Funny how one's tastes can change

In any case, you certainly have an impressive car and I enjoyed reading your build thread

Definitely a lot of $/HP for a NA 4.6 3V build, but I'm not looking for huge power (at least for now :))

Some stupid questions for you if you don't mind

Would the 2013 GT500 oil pan bolt right up to a regular 4.6L 3V?

Any idea how much weight you added going with the FRPP iron block?

It's unfortunate that they no longer offer the M-6009-A46X 5.0L aluminum short block and
the M-6049-N3VPA/M-6050-N3VPA CNC cylinder heads

Anyhow, thanks again for sharing your thoughts

PS - The VT stands for Vermont (where I used to live)
 
Just my thoughts...4.6's are fun ...I had an '04 GT.....but a '12 GT with a Coyote 412 HP may help you on your mission better, remember it's the same body style as the '05-'09...................

Definitely some good thoughts and I'm still considering options in the '11-'14 range

Could also get another Boss, but not sure I want to buy something I've already had (unless it was the exact car I used to own and in similar condition to when I sold it)

Decisions, decisions...
 

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The 3v/3650 combo is very reliable when cared for. I used to have a 2006 that I tracked a lot and it didn't really give me any issues. Engine mods are a terrible value haha. If you get one, just do basic engine stuff as an air intake and tune cover the majority of power gains to be had. Could also do longtubes if you felt like it, that was a nice increase but the install sucks. I ran mine on the original radiator and it was fine. They don't rev that high so heat was never an issue.

Suspension wise they are identical for all purposes, the longer control arm can be swapped over if desired. Mine had about 78k on it when I sold it, had been driven hard (but cared for) since 41k. They are great cars, and are dirt cheap now. Are you going to be street driving it a lot? If you can get some weight out of the car, they can be pretty quick even with 300-330 hp.

- Cory
 
AE8125C2-70E8-4D6B-B407-5E53B9B2AB89.jpegA7321EAE-F6EA-4ADB-B8E5-BC09D33188D9.jpeg
07 Shelby GT with original 4.6 3 valve. It’s had extensive mods including cams, intake, long tube headers, Tune. throttle body.

Dyno’d at 425 hp at the crank. Runs like a top and is as reliable as an Anvil.
 
Just chiming in here, I agree with the 05-09 body lines! I love the simplicity and pronounced fender flares. I can’t say I like it over a gt350 but it’s up there for sure!

Side note, there is a nice one on here for sale with about $100k on it and PLENTY of solid suspension mods. I caught myself looking at it again last night .
 

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