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Blacksheep Hates Watts Linkages

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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Is it that you hate the Watts because they are useless and don't help? or you don't think they are worth the bother as far as weight and maintenance? Or all of the above??
 
About watt's links. We were told they were the holy grail. but here is our history and thoughts.

In the GA/IMSA CTSC, you had to use the Ford Racing rear lower arms with poly bushings and a panhard rod, we made the car work pretty good there. We bailed on CTSC and started looking at PWC for 2015. In the middle of the switch we rebuilt a car with the PWC stuff, and wing and splitter, spherical rear arms, took it to Laguna for the SCCA runoffs as a back up car, had to use it, and it worked pretty well even with our base "GS" setup.

For PWC we were told you had to have the Watts link to be competitive. So we purchased a car that was for sale that had been strong in GTS, looked at the watts link, did some reading, went testing and ran it back to back with our car at a track that we had never run our car on. Out of the box our car was faster. Our car only got better during the day, while the car with the watts link didn't show much potential after some tinkering. Went home found the diff cover was leaking and bolts had already loosened up and decided along with lack of speed it wasn't worth the aggravation. By the end of the season we were the highest finishing Mustang at 10 of 17 races, and in 5 of the races we were not, we finished directly behind the highest.

Now in both PWC and IMSA, you were limited to stock pickup points, PWC allowed the watts link, but no moving of pickup points. For something that is unlimited, you might find something, but that is going to be a lot of work and money. If you like to tinker, go ahead. In what we do with the rule sets we race to you have to keep the basic suspension layout and its kind of cool making the S197 fly as fast as we did while still sharing most pieces and design with the street car.

Is our setup for everyone one? No. Its pretty costly, and requires all the pieces of the puzzle to be put in place to make it work to its best potential. However I would feel fine selling it, setting it up, and saying go learn to drive it and don't over think as long as all those pieces were installed. I feel what is most frustrating is having someone bring their car in complaining of leaks, squeaks, and not handling right, all because they put *insert part here* on thinking just IT would magically change the car. But a lot people just buy random parts thinking it will solve all problems without proper setup or interaction with other parts. I feel so confident in what we use because it was fine tuned against the stop watch and took the checkered flag ahead of competition.

On messing with the rear end of the S197. If it could have been improved so easily, why did the car last until 2014, and why did it take so long to bring out an IRS car? Think about that.
 
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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Thanks for your insights, very much appreciated!! I helped my friend out getting the "Holy Grail" installed in his car a while back. We have the same Cortex coilover setups except he has the watts and torque arm. Buddies car was sidelined due to his kids Karting careers, but this year I will be competing against him so its great (sort of) that I will not be missing the magic bullet! I feel a little bad because I sold him on the idea of the Watts...

If you had to make a choice between a SLA front suspension and a cambered rear axle setup..... Which one would give better results? I know it sounds like *insert part here* but assuming you do all the adjustments that you should do for each setup... Looking for a upgrade path for the car in the future.... doing both right away would be nice, but expensive!

PS Have no class rules on suspension....o_O
 
No rules on suspension sounds like it will be a very expensive path.

1. No experience with the SLA. Never allowed to use it.
2. The cambered rear axle. Another magic 2 seconds a lap... This was going to be the end all-be all. Again we were told it was worth so much in back to back testing. When we first used it, it wasn't. More like a couple hundredths of a second slower. But it showed promise as we were sent the wrong hubs a week before the next race, and couldn't get the proper degree hubs in time. After we got it properly setup with the correct camber, I'd say on certain tracks its probably worth a half of a second on a car that works well already. On cars that don't work well it may fix some things or it may screw things up further.

The real benefit was running fixed calipers on the rear. Much better and consistent brake pedal.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Thanks!! ..... thats really great to know. Will just keep working with what I have more or less... Changing out all the poly bushings to Spherical etc and working on fine tuning the suspension. The car keeps up with much more powerful competition the way it is, and its nice know that the types spending loads of money are looking for silver bullets that don't have a easy clear path in front of them.... And most of them have no access to great forum like this one. Its the good will and willingness to share info provided by people like yourselves that makes it much easier for rookies, like me, to get ahead!

Cheers!
 
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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Speaking for myself and not for our illustrious posters who started this thread..... Follow everyones advice to keep within one make as much as possible... Happy with my cortex coilovers and stayed with BMR for all the rest for that reason..... (AND BMR COMES IN RED)
 

TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
3,787
2,740
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Brighton, Colorado
:cool:(AND BMR COMES IN RED):cool:


The UCAs, UCA mount, A-Arms, A-Arm support, K-Member, Radiator Support, Watts Link and the LCA relos I have are all red. The only thing I couldn't get in red were the LCAs themselves.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
:D My UCA is hammer tone but its not exactly a very visible item! all the rest is RED!! But deep down inside.... at the very primitive level, right in the lizard brain (fight or flight area)..... it still bothers me its not red...
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
:cool:(AND BMR COMES IN RED):cool:


The UCAs, UCA mount, A-Arms, A-Arm support, K-Member, Radiator Support, Watts Link and the LCA relos I have are all red. The only thing I couldn't get in red were the LCAs themselves.

Sorry to hijack, but are the A-Arms, k-member, and rad support holding up well for road courses?
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Have two to four years on my BMR stuff and so far it has not let me down. I like having the flexibility to adjust sway bar stiffness etc. the only failure I have seen is a friends car, and that was a easy fix of a loose sway bar bushing. The sway bar mount is not the most robust..... We have three mustangs down here all with BMR suspension goodies. With every thing from rad supports, K-members, Lca, Uca sway bars etc etc. the Watts link on one car is a Cortex setup.
 

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