Carbon Ceramic Brakes - They're on!

[DocWalt]

How are the front rotors holding up with track abuse?

 

[WRB]

Through our long term track test and feedback we can conclude that when a proper pad (especially for track application) is installed, CCM rotors can last 3/4/5.. times longer, more cost effective than conventional iron set up in additional to the less down time, consistent brake torque delivery with no fade, no crack, confidence inspiring and worry free braking performance that some serious track racers are looking for.

This comment was posted on rennlist by quoting JJ's long term review here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3...ged-ccm-rotors-at-no-cost-7.html#post15125094

Our track tests for the same combo (CCM rotors + RB sintered pads) involved ZR1, Z28 (OE CCM) and GTR, Hellcat (converting from Iron) in the last 3 years.

 

[JAJ]

How are the front rotors holding up with track abuse?

I'm not sure I'd call it abuse

Here's the LF rotor as of this morning. You can see that it's still got that metallic shine from the sintered pads (which are solid metal) even though it's got a 100 miles or so with the Pagid RSL29's that are in the calipers now.

 

[JAJ]

By the way, I was looking at this thread again and it occurred to me to point out that the picture in my last post shows just how this setup is for dusting. There's shockingly little. The caliper looks all nice and tidy because I wiped it down with a dry cloth a couple of weeks ago when I swapped the brake pads, but the hat flange that's visible in the picture and the screws and nuts that attach the friction ring to the hat have never been cleaned since the initial installation last year.

 

[George]

I think I will do this on my 350R. I want to see what a total new ride is. I went 305/30/19 all around on my CF rims for better tire options. 5-6 weeks I will find out.

 

[George]

Do you think they will come up with a deal for the rear brakes?

 

[VoodooBoss]

That’s tough as you have the parking brake to deal with.

 

[Black Boss]

That’s tough as you have the parking brake to deal with.

+1

Most high performance vehicles with carbon ceramic rears have a second (electronic) caliper for the parking/e-brake. The drum adds diameter and hence rotating mass.

 

[JAJ]

Do you think they will come up with a deal for the rear brakes?

Unfortunately, no. If they did, I'd have them. RB does make a rear kit with 380x28 directional cast iron rotors that keep the factory handbrake and I have a set on my car. They cool a lot better than the OEM rear brake rotors and save a couple of pounds. Based on published specs from Brembo and others, CCB rotors for the rear would be between 5 and 7 pounds lighter than stock, so the weight reduction isn't as dramatic as it is at the front.

Which doesn't change the fact that I'd love to have a set, even if they don't save a lot of weight.

I believe the reason they're not available is because there are no suitable rotors that can be adapted. The front rotors are 394x36 CCB's from the Corvette ZR1 and they're an exact match for the GT350 OEM iron rotors. All RB had to do was make a hat for them. The RB hats are made from a forged aluminum billet and the machining is rather more complex than a regular racing hat.

Unfortunately, there isn't an exact match for the rear rotor available in CCB. The handbrake drum has to fit inside the hole in the center of the rotor and CCB rotors of the right diameter and thickness are rare in the first place. And, as far as I can tell, none of the ones that are the right size have an opening in the center that's big enough.

 

[JAJ]

Having lived with mine now for 18 months or so and done two seasons of track days and even a little commuting, there are three things I really like about my CCB's, and if you're wondering why I'd get the rear ones if they were available, it's all about 2. and 3. below:

1. The lighter front axles really do handle better.

2. The rotors don't wear (or crack) at all and your brake pads just seem to last and last and last and last...

3. Dust? What dust? I don't see any dust...

I've had lots of BBK setups in the past (Stoptech, AP Racing, Brembo Racing and various parts bin setups), and just swapping the rotors on my GT350 has been the easiest and most user friendly upgrade I've ever done. ​

 

[WRB]

GT350 Carbon Ceramic Brakes - now available for all four corners!
https://trackmustangsonline.com/thr...kes-now-available-for-all-four-corners.14551/

 

[JAJ]

Did a little more work on the GT350 this spring. Looking forward to a track season at some point...


My goal was to increase thermal capacity at the rear - the OEM rears work great, but these guys are bigger, they have vented stainless steel pistons and internal dust shields (no exposed rubber to melt) and they take an "F40" pad, which is both thicker and bigger than stock - about twice the pad volume of an OEM GT350 rear pad.

First time to go for a real drive is next week... Mission Raceway, notorious for being hard on brakes. We'll see how the weather is - forecast today is "showers" so it could be a pretty easy day all around.

 

[Tonymustang302]

what track wheels do you use?

 

[JAJ]

what track wheels do you use?

OEM GT350 rims, sometimes as 10.5/11 and sometimes 11 square. With the lightweight brakes, I can run the heavy, stiff OEM rims while enjoying the benefits of unsprung weights that are close to the GT350R with CF rims. My front's are about 2# lighter and the rears are about 5# heavier.

 

[Tonymustang302]

OEM GT350 rims, sometimes as 10.5/11 and sometimes 11 square. With the lightweight brakes, I can run the heavy, stiff OEM rims while enjoying the benefits of unsprung weights that are close to the GT350R with CF rims. My front's are about 2# lighter and the rears are about 5# heavier.

i was reading an article from Bill J something (guy who was helping with gt350) a\saying the gt350’s benifit drastically using the stock wheels.

 

[JAJ]

i was reading an article from Bill J something (guy who was helping with gt350) a\saying the gt350’s benifit drastically using the stock wheels.

@BillyJRacing is the author of that article. His main point was that the CF rims are super stiff as well as light. My experience is that the OEM aluminum rims are pretty good as well, but they're probably not as stiff as CF. One message from the article was that the heavier an aluminum rim is, provided the extra metal is in the right place, the stiffer it is, regardless of whether it's forged or cast. Forged is stronger and more resistant to cracking or breaking, but as far as stiffness is concerned, aluminum is aluminum.

So, for about the price of a set of super-stiff CF rims, I picked up four sets of fairly-stiff aluminum rims and one set of lightweight brakes.

BTW, what the stiffness gains you is lower static camber settings. When a wheel bends at high lateral G's, it reduces camber mid-corner. The more it bends, the more static camber you have to dial in to compensate. That's why people running CF rims on track can set front camber in the 2.2 to 2.5 degree range (on a GT350R) where folks with lovely lightweight forged rims need more like 3 degrees to even out their tire wear.

 

[Tonymustang302]

So buy a 2020 gt350.....ok got it

so you were running carbon disks with stock padsat one pooint?

 

[JAJ]

So buy a 2020 gt350.....ok got it

so you were running carbon disks with stock padsat one pooint?

I've done it and it works for street driving. I didn't do any track time that way, though. I've long been a fan of Pagid RSL29 endurance pads for track work and it turns out that Pagid certifies them for CCB brakes, so I just kept using them. You can see the yellow corners of a new set peeking out in the picture.

 

[JAJ]

So, track season, such as it was, is drawing to a close. I was able to get in five events - three at Area 27, a very fast track that some of you might have heard about (Chevy did the press launch of the ZL1 1LE there). The other two were at Mission Raceway, a local track with 9 turns in 1.5 miles, known to be hard on brakes.

When it comes to performance, the new rear setup is excellent. Everything works perfectly. The best thing is that I was looking for more heat capacity at the rear and I got it. Note the blackened bars on this Alcon strip. Oh wait, there aren't any. The new calipers are running very cool.

Gotta love this stuff!

 

[PatientZero]

Newb question. Where can you buy those temp strips?