The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Which oil to use for track days for 2011 Mustang GT?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

The original poster has a 2011 GT NON Track Pack. He modified the car with added coolers but was asking about oil viscosity. Because the 2011 NON Track Pack GT's ONLY call for 5W-20, should he not consider higher viscosity?
Precisely. I didn't say follow the manual I said call Ford Performance. If you do so I'm pretty sure they will recommend 5w50 for track use. This is nothing new, TMO members have been using 5w50 in their 5.0's dating back to 2010.
 
Precisely. I didn't say follow the manual I said call Ford Performance. If you do so I'm pretty sure they will recommend 5w50 for track use. This is nothing new, TMO members have been using 5w50 in their 5.0's dating back to 2010.

Not arguing with you on that one. But others have said "to stick with OE recommendations". OE recommendation for a 2011 non track pack is 5W-20. I spoke to Steve Horn from FP. He told me that 5W-30 would be fine as would higher viscosity. But he wasn't even aware that the 2018's called for going up one viscosity for track use on the GT's and two grades on the Ecoboost. So they may not always be the best reference. It depends on who you speak with and how knowledgeable they are.
 
I use Rotella T6 5w-40 because it's cheap (Walmart) and I have something stupid like 12-13 quarts per oil change. The 2.5 gal bottles come in handy and what I don't use ends up going towards my truck's oil change.

Just started using it. Will post if engine blows up or if my engine turns into diesel Coyote.
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,797
2,001
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
5 miles from Mosport
Any thoughts on why Ford would recommend going up 1 viscosity for track use on 18s but with my 16 PP1 car even though there is discussion on page 12 of the owners manual about track use they do not say anything about using a heavier weight of oil?
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
I love oil threads. It's almost a religious discussion!
On another note, supposed to do a track day today and it's snowing out! What viscosity oil would I use for that condition? LOL!!!:)
They're purely for entertainment purposes. ;) :D

Oil weights
Oil formulations
Change intervals
Phaser effects
Pressure effects
Pump pressure relief
Blinker rate adjustment factor

Where does it end?

Use the "park it and watch the carnage" viscosity.

I'll never learn. ;) :p
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Take a look at the attached for more information. I took a screen shot of the 2015-2017 shop manual specs for the 5.0 Ti-VVT engine in the S550 Mustangs. The manual itself is 10,000 pages and 173 mb, too big to upload ;-).

For reference SubsTech IS King Bearings. It is Dr. Dimitri Kopeliovich, their lead designer. Thicker oil viscosity simply results in higher MOFT in ANY clearance. However some clearances are more ideal for certain viscosity range. The idea of performance car applications is to have just enough MOFT to prevent wear and damage, but no more than in necessary to limit drag losses (power to the wheels).

I suspect 5W-50 is the super safe bet. That's why Ford Racing School's instructor cars run 5W-50 on a car whose factory spec oil is 5W-20 ON TOP OF using a 19 row air to oil cooler. Reliability. As instructor cars their primary focus is reliability and handling, how being the fastest. I highly suspect that is Ford's focus with the use of 5W-50.

Their competitors are running thinner oils, Chevy and Dodge. Hennessey also runs a GTL 5W-30 in their built super charged 2015 GT's (774 HP). Don't forget how good GLT base stocks are. 80% Isoparaffins vs. Group III's that are only 40% Isoparaffins, they are extremely temp stable and shear resistant. All the information is below to support what I"m saying and from some pretty darn authoritative sources including OE suppliers for Ford, Chevy and Dodge. Take it for what you will.

Looks like the con rod specs not the mains. Post a pic of the page with that and the document headers. What would really prove the point is a current/updated main bearing selection chart, if the Gen2 and Gen3 Coyotes are like the Gen1. I don't see Ford deviating from this practice with production engines. It's a pretty slick system for decent factory tolerances, IMO.
 
Looks like the con rod specs not the mains. Post a pic of the page with that and the document headers. What would really prove the point is a current/updated main bearing selection chart, if the Gen2 and Gen3 Coyotes are like the Gen1. I don't see Ford deviating from this practice with production engines. It's a pretty slick system for decent factory tolerances, IMO.

How about this, I'll list the connecting rod big end and main bearing clearances along with other specs for the 2.3L Ecoboost, 3.7L V6 and 5.0L V8. I only have the specs for the 2015-2017's (2nd Gen). But I'll create another post listing the known differences between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen 5.0's (regular models, not special variants like the Boss 302's Road Runner for the GT350's Voodoo 5.2L FPC).

Please note that MOFT is higher regardless of how tight the clearance is. Even in a 0.0004 in clearance, according to King Bearings 10W-60 produces higher MOFT than 10W-30 and 10W-30 higher MOFT than 0W-5 regardless of clearance. However with tighter clearances the MOFT difference is extremely small where as with larger clearances MOFT is more linearly proportional (higher wights produce thicker films).

2015-2017 2.3L Ecoboost I4 GDI (OE Oil spec 5W-30)
Connecting rod bearing-to-crankshaft clearance: 0.0011 - 0.0020 in
Connecting rod side to side clearance: 0.1020 - 0.1453 in
Main bearing clearance: 0.0006 - 0.0018 in
Weight: 311 lbs without accessory drive components and flexplate

2015-2017 3.7L Duratec V6 (OE Oil spec 5W-20)
Connecting rod bearing-to-crankshaft clearance: 0.0008 - 0.0021 in
Connecting rod side to side clearance: 0.0069 - 0.0167 in
Main bearing clearance: 0.0010 - 0.0016 in
Weight: 355 lbs without accessory drive components

2015-2017 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 aka 2nd Gen Coyote (OE Oil spec 5W-20 for US & UK, 5W-30 for Australia)
Connecting rod bearing-to-crankshaft clearance: 0.0011 - 0.0027 in
Connecting rod side to side clearance: 0.0128 - 0.0197 in
Main bearing clearance: 0.0010 - 0.0030 in
Weight: 431 lbs without accessory drive components

2018-2019 2.3L Ecoboost I4 GDI (OE Oil spec 5W-30 and 5W-50 for Track Use)
2018-2019 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 aka 3rd Gen Coyote (OE Oil spec 5W-20 and 5W-30 for Track Use)

You can download the user manuals for 2015-2017 Mustang GT's 1st and 3rd revision for Australian versions. They changed the specification for oil viscosity from 5W-20 1st revision to 5W-30 3rd revision...obviously the car's ECU and internal clearances didn't magically change when they revised the user manual. This falls in line with what Steve said from Ford Performance, that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 on these engines and it will run fine on either. He even suggested it would be ok to use up to 5W-50 for track use.

It covers the same model year range...Australian Mustang GT's have the same rated 435 HP output and 400 ft-lbs torque same as the US versions, the engines are built in the same factory as the US and UK versions of the car. UK versions do get a tuned down ECU software to meet European emissions requirements and are right hand drive, so some of the hardware on the outside is different for the UK versions. However, the UK dealers actually refuse to honor warranty unless they run 5W-30. Over on the Mustastang6g forum there as everal guys from the UK that report the same thing. Likewise with the Germans.

I'll re-iterate that Ford Racing School 2015 PP GT instructor cars run Castrol Super Car 5W-50 on the stock ECU calibration. They don't touch the engine other than added cooling (19 row setrab air to oil cooler). Obviously they are after reliability under constant extreme use given the cars purpose as a training tool, not maximizing power output, but 5W-50 isn't hurting the car on the stock calibration despite the OE spec for 5W-20.

It's all about heat range. If you never sustain high RPM long enough to build up heat in the oil, thinner oils are fine. Maximizing performance is about using the thinnest oil that will provide adequate protection for the maximum heat range you expect. Track however typically generates extreme thermal loads so what is adequate or even ideal for street is often not adequate for track. So use a viscosity that can handle the thermal loads. Higher quality oils resist thinning and boil off, so you can get away with lower viscosity while providing roughly the same level of protection as a thicker but lower quality oil.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Creedog, 70x77, Grant, and others , I am not worthy to get into the deep technical and detailed analysis you SuperTech Heroes are trying to help us digest ? Impressive thread , but my answer is that the Performance Engineers at Ford Performance and Dodge SRT that I have been privileged to know recommend 5-50w or 15-50w for vehicles like Boss 302s, GT 350s , Vipers , Hellcats, etc. that are run on track should be using these heavier weights.

As noted , not worthy of the Oil Gurus here, just repeating the simple answer from friends , cuz...............not sure I even get some of the deeper comments listed here, ha,ha.
 
Am I an idiot for running 5w30 in my Cyclone V6? I would swing for 5w50... nobody ever taught me better though! That Mobil 1 5w30 at bjs is cheap tho

Higher viscosity oils can compensate for higher thermal loads. A 5W-30 will be the same thickness at 240F as 5W-20 is at 210F. A 5W-40 will be the same thickness at 260F as 5W-20 is at 210F and a 5W-50 will be the same thickness at 280F as 5W-20 is at 210F. Some times you can add an Air to Oil cooler to keep oils temps down, you can get away with thinner oils. Or you can use a higher quality oil or both. Other times it makes more sense to go up several grades and run it hot.

Higher quality oils can also provide similar or better cold flow than lower quality oils in one viscosity lower. Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 for example has a cold flow of 4,000 cP @ -30C. Yet MotorCraft Semi-Synthetic 5W-20 has a cold flow of 5,200 cP @ -30C. Penzoil in one grade higher hot viscosity out flows Motor Crafters thinner blended 5W-20 because the GTL base oil has far better thermal stability than MotorCrafts synthetic blend base oil that's a mixture of Group II's and hydrocracked Group III's.

There's more than just rod bearings to worry about. One of the most common problems with Hydraulic lash adjusters is excessive lash at high RPM's when you add thermal loading to the oil. The oils thins out enough that the lash adjusters are bleeding down too much and at peak cam torque (highest part of the cam lobe), they bleed down faster than you can pump oil in and you don't achieve full valve lift. I suspect that's why Ford uses 5W-50 for all of their track focused cars like the Ford GT super car, GT350 and Boss 302. It's not just rod bearings, in fact the bearings are fine on 5W-30. But the lash adjusters may not. Your oil has to provide three services: lubrication, hydraulic fluid and cooling. What works best for one area may not always work best for the other area.

I also believe that's why they started suggesting higher viscosity oil in the 2018+ user manuals for track use. They realized people are tracking their non-track focused lower models and found it beneficial to compensate for higher than normal heat loads. It's all about temperature and application. Don't assume that what's on the oil cap is the best. What's on the oil cap may not have been intended to be used in the way your using it, in those cases it makes sense to change things. Just make small incremental changes, test it and see how it works.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Any thoughts on why Ford would recommend going up 1 viscosity for track use on 18s but with my 16 PP1 car even though there is discussion on page 12 of the owners manual about track use they do not say anything about using a heavier weight of oil?
Because heavier oil will generate fewer cases of warranty abuse and free engine replacements.


Am I an idiot for running 5w30 in my Cyclone V6? I would swing for 5w50... nobody ever taught me better though! That Mobil 1 5w30 at bjs is cheap tho
If I ever get around to my V6 project/track car I'd run 5W-50 in it. Doesn't make anyone an idiot for running 5W-30.


a 5W-50 will be the same thickness at 280F as 5W-20 is at 210F.

JMO, but that's the BEST reason to use 5W-50 at the track, no matter how you drive. Track use and even short 20 minute sessions put a lot of heat into the oil and will see spot temps over 300ºF regardless of the engine used or where the oil temp is being monitored. Does anyone really want LESS protection in those hot spots?

Arguing to use a lighter weight for 'better performance' makes no sense to me when shorter engine life and less reliability become a factor. You've confirmed a lot of what I think/suspect/know about the reasons to use 5W-50. I think we just have drawn different conclusions of what is best.
 
Creedog, 70x77, Grant, and others , I am not worthy to get into the deep technical and detailed analysis you SuperTech Heroes are trying to help us digest ? Impressive thread , but my answer is that the Performance Engineers at Ford Performance and Dodge SRT that I have been privileged to know recommend 5-50w or 15-50w for vehicles like Boss 302s, GT 350s , Vipers , Hellcats, etc. that are run on track should be using these heavier weights.

As noted , not worthy of the Oil Gurus here, just repeating the simple answer from friends , cuz...............not sure I even get some of the deeper comments listed here, ha,ha.

I have zero issues with suggesting 5W-50 for a track day oil on ANY of these cars at this point, especially on stock cooling systems for the lesser models. For sustained high RPM, it's common to see oil temps in the 270F to 300F range. 5W-50 at 280F will be of a similar viscosity to 5W-20 at 210F (typical street use temps).

But there are a lot of guys who have regular GT's, Ecoboost or V6's that call for 5W-20 as the only viscosity and the car wasn't intended for track use, yet they track their cars anyway. They are the ones wondering if 5W-30, 40 or 50 is ok to run in a car that has an OE spec of 5W-20. I don't think there's any debate that you should run 0W-40 or 5W-50 in the track edition cars that call for it or go up one viscosity grade if the user manual calls for it (like the 2018-2019 Mustangs and 2016-2019 Camaro's do).

For the guys like me, who have a 2016 Performance Package Mustang GT with a power adder like the Ford Performance Power Pack 2 that extends the rev range or the OP of this thread who has a 2011 Mustang GT Non-track pack with added oil coolers because his didn't originally have them, we are the ones trying to figure out if we can go up in viscosity for track and what the impacts are.

That's why I've taken on the this research project because no one, on any of the forums, has provided comprehensive information to support what the ideal route is. No one has provided the impacts to the five critical systems that use oil and are found in the standard production engines: 1. Rod and Main Bearings 2. Oil Pump 3. Hydraulic Lash Adjusters 4. Cam Phasors 5. Oil Squirters.

Some say stay the same and use a higher quality 5W-20 like mPAO, other's say go up one grade, yet others say just run 5W-50 like the track focused variants do. What is adequate to protect the rod bearings may NOT be adequate to allow proper function of the Lash Adjusters on the track, or what provides optimal function for the lash adjusters may not provide optimal function of the CTA phasors etc.

That is why I provided data from Borg Warner, Clevite (Mahle), Ford Racing School, Engine Builder Labs, King Bearings etc. to look at each system and how it is impact by oil viscosity in each application (Street, track, drag, auto x). Here is what I've found for the owners of the lesser GT's looking to track their cars:

1. Increasing viscosity from 5W-20 to 5W-30 (or 0W-30) is perfectly acceptable, if not ideal for a street car in street use applications, auto x and drag racing. Especially if your stepping up to a higher quality 5W-30 as some of the high VI 5W-30's will out flow MotorCraft Semi-Syn 5W-20 when cold, but provide 11%-14% better HTHS film strength in the rod / main bearings and 30F higher maximum operating temperature over 5W-20 all without negative effects on the cam phasors and more ideal operation of the hydraulic lash adjusters. Oil squirters are not affected by such a small change. Power losses from increased drag are expected to be in the 1-2 hp range, which is meaningless. Fuel economy differences are not even measurable without specialized equipment (0.6% according Ford's averages when switching from 5W-20 from 5W-30 on the same engine).

2. Increasing viscosity to 0/5W-40 or 5W-50 for a track day is ideal to manage expected oil temperatures in the 280F to 300F range. Especially on the stock cooling system of the lesser models like my 2016 Performance Package GT and even more important when running a power adder like the Power Pack 2 or 3 that increases power output and rev range. Or you could run high quality 5W-30 with an Air to Oil cooler (lowers average operating temps 30 to 50 degrees which is one to two viscosity grades). Use a good quality synthetic to limit boil off, deposits, minimize wear and maximize lubrication (higher quality additive packages).
 
1,246
1,243
In the V6L
Okay, so let's break this down. First, viscosity: the difference between 5w20 and 5w30 is about 8 degrees Celsius, and the same again between 5w30 and 5w40. Second, the higher the viscosity, the harder it is to pump, which takes energy that's absorbed by the oil and that means that thick oil runs hotter than thin oil under the same conditions. This was glaringly obvious in my E39 M5 that was approved by BMW for both 5w30 and 10w60. Track day running temps were noticeably lower for the 5w30.

So that's why I'm not convinced that all the concern about viscosity is as important as it seems - the higher the viscosity, the hotter the oil, the less "extra" viscosity. And then there's Dr. Ali Haas, who was on BITOG for years. He argued that the thinnest oil that maintained adequate pressure was the right oil. His view was that thinner oil flowing faster would carry heat away from the hottest parts of the engine faster so that they'd be cooler than they'd be with a thicker oil flowing more slowly. The argument has merit. He ran 5w20 in his Enzo, which was rated by Ferrari for 10w60. Had he tracked it, he might have stepped up, but he'd have done it on the basis of oil pressure at high RPM, not what the manual said.

So, if I had a 2016 GT PP1 that's still under warranty, I'd run the oil that Ford recommends, add the oil coolers that Ford recommends, and I'd change it after every event, again as Ford recommends. Once it's out of warranty, I'd switch to a 5w30 that's on the Porsche C30 list. It'll have an HTHS of 3.5 or higher and it's low SAPS. If you don't care about SAPS, you can also switch to Redline 5w20, which has an HTHS of 3.2, more like a US 5w30.
 
Because heavier oil will generate fewer cases of warranty abuse and free engine replacements.


If I ever get around to my V6 project/track car I'd run 5W-50 in it. Doesn't make anyone an idiot for running 5W-30.




JMO, but that's the BEST reason to use 5W-50 at the track, no matter how you drive. Track use and even short 20 minute sessions put a lot of heat into the oil and will see spot temps over 300ºF regardless of the engine used or where the oil temp is being monitored. Does anyone really want LESS protection in those hot spots?

Arguing to use a lighter weight for 'better performance' makes no sense to me when shorter engine life and less reliability become a factor. You've confirmed a lot of what I think/suspect/know about the reasons to use 5W-50. I think we just have drawn different conclusions of what is best.

Agreed for the most part. Running thicker oils for track is to compensate for elevated temperatures. But where I disagree is in that you can run one viscosity grade lower on the track variants that call for 5W-50 when using a high end base stock oil than would be necessary with a lower quality OE oil. That is straight from Lake Speed Jr's article where he demonstrates that very principle on a crate engine dyno using the 15W-50 OE oil, their race blend 10W-40 and then their race blend 10W-30, showing both power output and wear metal analysis. 10W-30 performed the best in all categories (lowest drag losses and actually the lowest wear metals).

Look at the viscosity of MC 5W-50 at 100C, it's 21 cSt! Yet that same oil has proven to shear down in UOA's, to as low as a 30 weight. Two grades! Now compare it to my poster child oil that's commonly available and very affordable, Penzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40. 13.7 cSt @ 100C. It stays in grade even under sever use cases. What's going to provide better protection, a 5W-50 that shears down to 5W-30 or a 0W-40 that stays in grade?

But on the other end of the spectrum is lesser models looking to track their cars. These models need to go up in viscosity because the OE specifications did not take that into account as a use case and are on the marginal side, even with a high end oil. 2011-2017's (excluding Track Pack S197's) come to mind. 2018-2019's, both V8 and I4's, thankfully added in those special use cases and recommended going up one viscosity grade on the same engine. It's nothing new for performance cars and trucks.

But for the non-Track Pack 201-2014's and ALL non-GT350 variants for 2015-2017 there's no recommendations for track use. Given the performance of some of the 30 and 40 weights, I see no reason to jump up to the available 50 weights over something like PUP 0W-40 / 5W-30 or even going super high end with an mPAO 5W-30 like Driven's FR30 because of their extremely good temperature stability over the polymer doped Group III's. I suppose if your super anal, you could use Driven's FR50...that's their coyote specific formula for the track variants that use 5W-50 as the OE spec.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Okay, so let's break this down. First, viscosity: the difference between 5w20 and 5w30 is about 8 degrees Celsius, and the same again between 5w30 and 5w40. Second, the higher the viscosity, the harder it is to pump, which takes energy that's absorbed by the oil and that means that thick oil runs hotter than thin oil under the same conditions. This was glaringly obvious in my E39 M5 that was approved by BMW for both 5w30 and 10w60. Track day running temps were noticeably lower for the 5w30.

urf. That's a bit of chicken and egg problem. And you cannot say that the different weights have and Xº 'difference'.

There is no 'proof' that heavier weight oils run hotter.

There IS proof that lighter weight oils may not or simply don't provide enough pressure when hot.

Coolers DO NOT mitigate hot spots. The thermodynamics are relatively simple. But regardless of where the oil temps are taken, they do NOTHING to tell us what the hot spot temps are. And these are the locations where HTHS properties matter.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
I got one with a few mods if you want to come out from Cali and get it :D Everytime I have to buy brakes I think about how much better it'd be to be stopping a 1000 lbs lighter car! :0
If only it wasn't an automatic! Doesn't help that a friend of mine is considering selling his '13 V6 and just heard about it on Saturday.
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
I've never liked those 5w20 oils. My understanding anyway was that they let the cars advertise marginally higher fuel mileage but actually had higher wear than the 5w30 and 10w30 oils. I've never run anything less than 5w30 in any car for that reason. I'd upgrade but the oil is like twice as much a quart so... why? The oil "feels fine" coming out using 5w30.

FWIW I think it was Waddell Wilson in the NASCAR world who put like 10-15 temperature sensors in a car at Daytona one year, figured out the hot spots, and completely reworked the cooling to eliminate them. That made the first V8 that Cale Yarborough (that famous Hardees paint job) could run at 200 mph lap after lap, and never detonate. Won the 500 like that.....

@Grant 302 , I've thought about what life after this Muscrat will be... I'm leaning towards not a Mustang for the moment. I plan to run this car throuhg 2020. I don't know if I can sell it because of its transmission to another performance enthusiast, or if the future after this car will be de-mod, sell it as a standard old car, then sell the mods, then move on.
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top