Wind tunnel video time.
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Bringing this back, not looking for crazy aero at this point for baselines but anyone know if adding the GT350 taller spoiler helps and by how much, vs the stock PP2? I’m about to track at Auto Club Speedway, high banking Roval config. Thx!PP2 has a 'spoiler', not a 'wing'. It makes some downforce unlike the 'wing'. Not a ton, but better than the PP1 wing.
We have a number on the 350R wing to no wing and the effect on the rear wheels was only about 125lbs at 100mph. We did do a 1" and 3" spoiler test and the 3" spoiler was surprisingly close to the 350R wing. We didn't have a swing to test but Looking at the design, the Swing would probably perform under that of the R wing, so going from a PP2 spoiler, to the GT350 swing, the delta may be in the 50-75lb range at 100mph.Bringing this back, not looking for crazy aero at this point for baselines but anyone know if adding the GT350 taller spoiler helps and by how much, vs the stock PP2? I’m about to track at Auto Club Speedway, high banking Roval config. Thx!
Great info, thanks! I’ll get the feel of it this weekend at the Roval.We have a number on the 350R wing to no wing and the effect on the rear wheels was only about 125lbs at 100mph. We did do a 1" and 3" spoiler test and the 3" spoiler was surprisingly close to the 350R wing. We didn't have a swing to test but Looking at the design, the Swing would probably perform under that of the R wing, so going from a PP2 spoiler, to the GT350 swing, the delta may be in the 50-75lb range at 100mph.
We did do a 1" and 3" spoiler test and the 3" spoiler was surprisingly close to the 350R wing.
Lol.Were you *really* surprised or just a little disappointed? Spoilers are powerful and, at least for the first 'X' height, they're also (usually) reasonably clean because they tend to help clean up a little of the separation off the roofline and organize the flow coming from under the car. I bet if you're really trying to crank some AoA into a rear wing, having some sort of spoiler to help turn the underside flow would be a real advantage. In other applications, I've found this interaction to be quite strong.
Actually there is an article saying the swing with gurney generates 379lbs at 180mph.Andy Pilgrim did a 350 vs 350R comparo at NCMP for Automobile (online) Mag a coupla years ago.
IIRC...Andy said that Ford told him the d'force from the 350 swing+ g-flap was 20 or 30# less than the 350R wing...above 100mph.
Hmmmm...gotta go find that one again. It was a fun episode.
I have a 1-2 deg pitch. Just regular flat blade. I could have more but now sure worth it without tunnels.Flyhalf, have you introduced much pitch sensitivity with your splitter work? I don't know what kind of ride heights you're running, but I don't think you have a raised center on that splitter? I'm just curious if it's ever an issue.
I have a 1-2 deg pitch. Just regular flat blade. I could have more but now sure worth it without tunnels.
With the new one that im making with AJ tunnels that i might play a little more with it.
Height of splitter is 2.75 -3"
Height
That would be called porpoising. Its pretty crazy when it happens. I'll let flyhalf answer his own experiences, but generally it happens when the splitter itself isn't strong enough and thats what flops up and down. If the splitter is much stiffer, and the chassis starts porpoising, its very pronounced. I've had this happen. Pitch sensitivity is an issue for sure, but at the Df levels of the average track car, and no flat bottom, a raised center splitter is pretty pointless.I don't think I asked my question correctly. I wasn't asking about the splitter itself.
On track, do you feel an increase in the pitch sensitivity of the entire car? When you're on the brakes with the nose down and the tail up, do you get to a point where either downforce of the splitter gets very high and creates corner entry oversteer or restricts flow under the car causing a big wash?
Surprised. I would have been disappointed if the 3" spoiler almost matched my wing haha. It was a combo of the R wing being worse than I thought, and the 3" spoiler being a little better than I thought. I should also clarify that those spoiler tests were done alone. Not with our wing on the car. We did do a 1" spoiler on the 98 Mustang in the wind tunnel in conjunction with our wing and it wasn't that efficient of a gain, and with plenty of room to go up on the wing, wouldn't recommend it on that situation, but I'm sure theres setups or situations where it is may be a good option.Were you *really* surprised or just a little disappointed? Spoilers are powerful and, at least for the first 'X' height, they're also (usually) reasonably clean because they tend to help clean up a little of the separation off the roofline and organize the flow coming from under the car. I bet if you're really trying to crank some AoA into a rear wing, having some sort of spoiler to help turn the underside flow would be a real advantage. In other applications, I've found this interaction to be quite strong.
One of the thing I've learned in this my adventure is the word BALANCE.I don't think I asked my question correctly. I wasn't asking about the splitter itself.
On track, do you feel an increase in the pitch sensitivity of the entire car? When you're on the brakes with the nose down and the tail up, do you get to a point where either downforce of the splitter gets very high and creates corner entry oversteer or restricts flow under the car causing a big wash?
I don't think I asked my question correctly. I wasn't asking about the splitter itself.
On track, do you feel an increase in the pitch sensitivity of the entire car? When you're on the brakes with the nose down and the tail up, do you get to a point where either downforce of the splitter gets very high and creates corner entry oversteer or restricts flow under the car causing a big wash?
Surprised. I would have been disappointed if the 3" spoiler almost matched my wing haha. It was a combo of the R wing being worse than I thought, and the 3" spoiler being a little better than I thought. I should also clarify that those spoiler tests were done alone. Not with our wing on the car. We did do a 1" spoiler on the 98 Mustang in the wind tunnel in conjunction with our wing and it wasn't that efficient of a gain, and with plenty of room to go up on the wing, wouldn't recommend it on that situation, but I'm sure theres setups or situations where it is may be a good option.
I think the issue with a wing that close to the trunk is the low pressure on the bottom surface of the wing a few inches away from the trunk gets canceled out a bit.I just remember with the original CoT, the stock car guys were making a lot of noise about the wing being less downforce than the spoiler. I'm sure NASCAR made the rules to produce that outcome, but it didn't take that long to return to the spoiler.
Nightmare Moon has run the 10" tall AutoX spoiler and says it really sticks the back of the car. No doubt, it's dirty as hell aerodynamically, but it makes the watch go in the right direction on a fast parking lot course or slow track. The CAM rules allow for a 6" splitter for balance. No aftermarket wings are allowed.
My questions were not about propoising. If flyhalf didn't have that at Daytona, then he won't have it. I was describing a situation where the front of the car gets either 'pinned' by being very close to the ground and extra powerful or 'no one home' because the splitter is on the ground and the flow underneath has been blocked. Judging by what you both have said, these cars just don't run in the ride height range which would induce these behaviors.