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Some track-related legal advice needed

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captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
So I've managed to stall my 2019 racing plans by the typical "luck" that's plagued my efforts.

Note: I've consulted an attorney, but we've yet to meet or have a call to fully discuss. Names obscured until I need to start burning bridges.

I started an engine build back last year knowing I'd need something to race with in 2019. I had slowly collected all the parts and interviewed builders to find what I wanted. I was hoping to find a local source for a detailed blueprinted build and I found a company that wow'ed on all marks.

Company A shared a space with Company B, and I entered an agreement with company A to build out a blueprinted shortblock (and I'd complete it into a long block). I was verbally quoted $2500-3500 to accomplish this work. I deposited $1500 and off they went. I went back to racing, and left them to work. They completed some measurements, were good with communicating with me, and determined the cylinders would need align honing (and a set of torque plates) to even be able to properly clearance pistons. This involved some back and forth as I had to buy a set of larger pistons and torque plates, but we determined the plates were inadequate and needed to fabricate a set. So I authorized a set to be built.

From there, Company A's owner "retired" (though later determined company A folded and B took over all their work while being cash short), and Company B said they'd continue handling the build but estimated 25-50 hours for it. This was more than I expected, but I said if we could keep it to the low side of the estimate that it would be fine. The owner of company B also talked about making sure I was informed of progress. From that point on, nothing.

I followed up later, and the staff I worked with from Company A and was happy with advised me they were leaving to start their own company C, and recommended that I closed out the tab with Company B as they were being subcontracted to finish B's work and it would just mean more markup. Without letting company B know of this, I inquired on the status with B, and they mentioned they could get me the updated invoice. Company C's staff let me know they got as far as measuring the block bores, rods, and mains, but had not machined anything. They had gathered some aluminum and had a water jet company set them up for torque plates, but ultimately were 25% into the build.

Well,I received the invoice: $4500 total for a pair of torque plates (that were a 110% markup from what the water jet guys did and aluminum sourcing, but whatever). Worse though, I was being charged $3200 for the measurements from the above total. Just for measurements. I advised all work to stop while I looked into this, but Company B charging more for just the first 25% of the build than I agreed to with Company A altogether. Company C's staff mentioned to me they only spent 8-16 hours tops for everything, but I'm being charged 32. Also the "retired" owner of Company A is furious, but ultimately powerless to help.

The problems are the following:

  • This outrageous quote, where if I were to pay it, I'd walk away with nothing to show for it but some torque plates
  • I only have verbal contracts, invoices for my deposits, and the outstanding invoices. It was a time and materials agreement and they just ran with it (Which is common in this model , but I don't know how to deal with it from the buyer side)
  • I want to get this all to company C minimizing headache to continue their great work I've been happy with. I'm only upset over the billing practices of Company B
I don't understand what my rights are, and how I can get out of this. I need to respond to Company B, they want a credit card to pay the invoice as quick as possible for obvious reasons, but I'm stalling before I take a hard line. I've already asked for detailed invoices and noted my displeasure with the billing amount for how far we're in.

They believe the torque plate requirement (which ANY build needs), somehow justifies the cost, which would exceed $13k in just time and materials if they kept at their rates and costs.

What can I do to A: get all my hardware back (they have everything for that engine, from shortblock parts to heads, clutch, and oil pan), and B: not pay this ludicrous amount.

I have options like publicly burning company B, but I want to understand what I can legally do to resolve this, as I'm sure they won't be reasonable about parting ways. I'd love to just cut at $1500 for my parts, and they keep the plates.

Its really disheartening that in this social age people are still willing to screw over others to such degrees. What thoughts besides get in front of an attorney?
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Ouch...... I did not think that kind of thing would happen in the USA in this day and age. Can not offer much advice, but do wish you the very best of luck sorting out a $hitty situation. I guess if all else fails, public shaming is your weapon of last recourse.
 
Darn, I thought all of your bad luck was behind you. I'm of no help here but good luck with the resolution.
 
277
161
I would send some hard hitting pipe ....... over there and get your parts back. Dumping good money into any of these companies should be the last thing on your mind. Cut your losses and get your parts back. Then find a shop who are not DB's and have them finish the job.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
"If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all"....I don't know who said that, but I wish you better days ahead!!!
Booker T Jones wrote: "Born under a bad sign."
Albert King recorded it and Eric Clapton/Cream made it famous.
As far as motors go, God knows I've had more than my share of getting screwed as well.
Best thing I ever did was have my current motor built from top to bottom by JDM Engineering.
Unfortunately I don't have any legal advice, all I can do is offer sympathy and moral support. :(
 
When I was younger I wanted to get out of my small medical practice for a better opportunity. I was approached by two colleagues I knew by name locally but never met. We talked and agreed, by handshake and verbally, that they could work the office for a few months before a reasonable sale price established. Except when the time came to get paid they ignored me. I got an attorney. The handshake had value....it was a contract. So I hired an accountant to value the practice and waited (2 years) for my day in court, When that day arrived....they settled. I didn't get near what I wanted because I had moved on and didn't care so I accepted their no-trial offer. But the point is.....you still have a case (IMO) by the fact that you had a verbal agreement and they have possession of your parts. The key is getting an outside professional to assess the situation and make a judgement on what would be a fair price for the current work. May not be easy to find the right 3rd party but if you can it may not cost that much and a reasonable agreement may end this nightmare. Good luck.
 
Don't give them any money and get your parts and deposits back ASAP. Once you give them money it will be harder if not impossible to get your money back if they fail to make good on their unwritten (verbal) promises. If they are giving you a hard time now it is only going to get worse. An attorney is just going to cost you more $$$$$......
Never, never, never pay for anything in advance or put a deposit on anything. If the company asks for a deposit it means they do not have the working capital to run a good honest business and they are working on job to job income. Only pay after the work has been completed so you have some leverage. I also like to pay with a CC so I can cancel it (or place it on hold) if we have any problems after the work has been completed. Note: This will only work within a couple of weeks after you pay with a CC (not debit card) but its one more safety net that can gain you more leverage to correct an issue with the warranty.

Tim
 
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TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
3,787
2,740
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Brighton, Colorado
A lesson learned in life. Had my kitchen floor done by a contractor that was middle of the road price-wise but required nothing up front. When we decided to have new hardwood done in the hallway and living room as well, wife went with the cheapest option and they required half up front. Took them twice as long, did a half ass job we regret to this day and now the floors are seperating. @thehueypilot is absolutely correct in his advise. If they demand money up front, as Bill Engvall would say... "There's your sign"
 
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captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
Following up: I sent a long letter explaining my side of it, their invoicing which included billable time for "Figuring out job cost" "Parts cost research (I bought no parts from them)" "organizing notes" among other questionable items, went through it all and provided comparison quotes. Offered to settle for a mutually fair amount, OR just allow me to get my hardware back and have them keep their torque plates. I advised that I wanted an amicable solution but had retained counsel should I need to further escalate the situation.

They offered a compromise which was 66% in my favor, which puts it on the high side of fair, but far cheaper than the legal fees I was looking at along with missing most of 2019 racing through a process that was described to me to take "months if not more than a year".

I'm starting over from ground zero and will be a few thousand short of where I started, but at least I can start working towards moving forward. Lessons learned. Get it all on paper. Trust no one.
 

captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
I guess neither exist any more, so nothing to worry about there (Vintage Iron still exists but they do classic car restoration, not engine building). Did recover my stuff and pay the fee. The $1200 torque plates are pretty sloppy and will require more machining to be usable but not the end of the world.
 
Thanks.

What is a torque plate? I've been wondering that this entire thread.

edit: Never mind, I googled it this morning. Pretty cool
 
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