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Help me Decide on my Tires and Pads for the Track.

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Stock tires give you less grip but more feedback when on the early part of the learning curve. Expensive streeters to burn at the track, however. NT-01's are no question the best drive up tire- fantastic grip and hold up well ; Nitto's are the intermediate step-up to better grip as you exceed the limits of street tires, then graduate to pull-off slicks..You will know when you're driving well enough to run out of grip..
Yes, you can huck 4 wheels, a jack, and what you need for track days in a GT350- I do it every time..
Thanks for the response Steve!

I would 100% haul my stock wheels but can’t fit them in the back with the Watson 4 point. If you have any wizardy around that, besides removing the cage, you would be my hero!

Towing will be in my future if this addiction keeps biting as hard as I think it will.

I’m assuming you drive on your stock wheels and swap to the NT01s at the track?
 
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...From you more experienced track guys, does anybody think it would be a hindrance to my progression to move to a more aggressive tire this early?...
I don't think it would be a hindrance, but it won't help either. Progression is about learning to find a line that works for the car, about getting your vision in the right place and being calm in the driver's seat - "you have to go slow to go fast". You can do that on any tire you choose, it just takes practice and coaching.

For now, I'd spend the money on a coach - the video indicates that you would benefit from it, let's just say.
 
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Already quoting myself, just to show how analytical I am (haha).

From you more experienced track guys, does anybody think it would be a hindrance to my progression to move to a more aggressive tire this early?

Here's the deal, tires can mask a monumental amount of screwed up suspension adjustments, anytime you slow down throw some tires at it, suddenly it's a rocket again. sure, they won't last 4 laps, but that's not the point, the point is that the tire is doing all the work, not the suspension, or the driver. I used to work for an engineer like that, everytime the car slowed, he put a new set of slicks on it..that's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Consistency is the key, if you want to play hero driver, then fire a new set of stickies on it, but get ready to come off the hip with the wallet. You already know a tires first 4 laps will be their best, so take the time to run them in (so they'll last) and work on consistency.
As an example..in PWC, we ran a set of tires for the first shakedown laps, then those tires go to get stickers, the next set of tires to go on are last week's 4 lap practice tires, these tires will be run for all of practice with the exception of the last 4 laps or 5 minutes. (in GT, the que for qualifying is dependent on your practice times, so running a set of stickies for the last 4 laps does 2 things, 1. it moves you up in the que, and 2. it validates any changes you made during the practice sessions, those tires are mint, and will be used for the following race practice sessions. The next set of stickers goes on for actual qualifying, these tires have pressure adjustments designed to allow them the best adhesion on lap 2 to 4, so the driver needs to find a hole and get on the gas pedal. The car will have to start the race on these tires per the rules (another reason the driver needs to get on with it, run a lap and park the car, to save the tires). so they are marked after the qualy and, after the race, these tires become next week's "shakedown" tires. The race on the following day gets stickers as well, these will be used as spares for the following week's first practice session, then the rotation begins again. What this did was to keep a decent set of tires on the car at all times, including an acceptable backup set. in this manner, you could do meaningful tuning to the car with measurable results, and still keep the stickers for when you need the speed. Along those lines, tire break in is pretty important, qualifying is really rough on tires and limits their longevity (another reason to get qualifying over quick).

UXUB0Dzl.jpg
 
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I don't think it would be a hindrance, but it won't help either. Progression is about learning to find a line that works for the car, about getting your vision in the right place and being calm in the driver's seat - "you have to go slow to go fast". You can do that on any tire you choose, it just takes practice and coaching.

For now, I'd spend the money on a coach - the video indicates that you would benefit from it, let's just say.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I'm hoping to find a good instructor for my day out at Sebring. I've got a long way to go but that's part of the fun!
 

Bill Pemberton

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The RS4s seem to be a big favorite of guys doing HPDEs , as they seem to take heat for a full session , whereas the RE71s will be super fast for a few laps and then they can get greasy. Similar issue for the BFG Rival S 1.5s ( great tire for those wanting 18s ), and they appear to take a bit longer to get to their point of slip sliding away, but both of these tires were designed for Autocrossing , so the ability to heat up was tantamount to their success. Since both take their share of wins at the Solo Nationals , this is quite understandable , and when viewing articles on the RS4s , they virtually always take a back seat to these two. But, listening to many trackraticus individuals on this site, the RS4s seem to last a bit longer, take more heat long term ( in other words during a 20-30 minute session on track ) and are solid on the street. Frankly, all three of these would be better than the NT01s, in my opinion, as they all shed water a lot better. Listen to BS1 , as he always has good advice , and even though he works for one of the best known Race Teams in the Northeast, he is also known to be " El Cheap," hence he looks for what works for the best bang on his buck.

Now , if you get a trailer , throw this all out the window, time to get some sticky rubber , like used Pirellis, Michelins ( slicks from various race series ) , Hoosier R7s, or BFG gforce R1s tires. Good luck and living in Orlando , you definitely have to view rain as a reason for your purchases , and as long as you are driving to the track a NT01 should not be on your list , imho.
 
Thanks for the detailed response Bill!

I wanted to update this thread for anybody that may stumble upon it later.

I ended up ordering 305/30/19 RE71R tires, which will be here today. I decided to accept the wear characteristics of this tire in exchange for something that I can drive to and from the track.

My initial choice was going to be the Hankook RS4, but as I mentioned previously they aren’t available anywhere and won’t be for some time (if at all).
 

Bill Pemberton

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There was limited stock of RS4s at Tire Rack, but a friend of mine got a set last month from them , so aware they are harder to get , but the delay could be from the Solo Nationals coming up -- quite a few popular tires get short right about now.

No worries , the RE71Rs are a great tire ,especially if you want to do both - road race and autocross.
 
Thanks for the detailed response Bill!

I wanted to update this thread for anybody that may stumble upon it later.

I ended up ordering 305/30/19 RE71R tires, which will be here today. I decided to accept the wear characteristics of this tire in exchange for something that I can drive to and from the track.

My initial choice was going to be the Hankook RS4, but as I mentioned previously they aren’t available anywhere and won’t be for some time (if at all).

Congratulations on making a decision and pulling the trigger lol. You’ll have to update the thread with your thoughts on the tires.

I still have a couple weeks until the wheels get here to decide. I tend to borrow a trailer for HPDE so I was leaning towards the NT01, but may try the RE71R as it is later in the season and I do mess around with autocross more (not competitive mind you and only 2-3 HPDEs left).
 

Bill Pemberton

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Gentlemen,

Hard for me to understand the NT01 thought process as this is a tire that is practically a decade old and there are so many other air filled rubber devices that are stickier, serve a street purpose as well , and are often less expensive. When I see a guy with a GT 350 my first response is often , why not just buy what Ford puts on the car now, a Pilot Sport Cup 2 --heck they are cheaper than the Nittos! Get a set of Apex rims, buy a 25mm spacer for the front, run 19x11s and get the 305s all the way around. The TireRack link is right there and it benefits TMO.

And if you want an Autocross killer as well as a road course monster, and you are running 18x11s, check out the BFG Rival 1.5S , as it is killing it in the CAM classes in SCCA, and guys on track say they are as quick as the RE71Rs , but take a bit longer to get greasy - plus you can get them in a 315/18.
 
Well, I will be running square 305s on 19x11s. The reason for looking at the NT01 is consistency and longevity. Don’t need every second out of a tire, but would like a little more than the MPSS that came on the car. At the same time, can’t afford to be changing tires that often. The Porsche spec Cup 2 looks good, but is more $$$ than the NT01.

The 305/3019 Rival S 1.5 just wasn’t something I heard much about. However, given the price point it looks pretty tempting, especially if it takes longer to get greasy than the RE71R.
 
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Bill Pemberton

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You don't need the Porsche Spec Cup 2, and the regular one ( PSC2 ) is less than the NT01. The Rivals and the RE 71s dominate the Solo Nationals , though the new Yokohama A052 could knock heads with both of them. That tire seems to get warm even quicker than the other two , so it may end up not working well on a road course.......we need to see more data.

Tire Rack ( Ford Performance MPSC2 305/18s ) -423.50
Discount Tire Nittos - 305/18s -428

Tire designed for our car, and a bit less, plus quicker on the track, and you can hook up with the link to Tire Rack!
 
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TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
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I've taken the stepping stone approach. OEM tires got zero track miles on my '12 boss but by the tyme I started driving out to the track for HPDE, I was using MT Street Performance. Moved up to the PS4S as I got more track tyme and will use the RE71R in Hastings and see how these feel under my beast. As I progress, I gain skill, knowledge and better lap tyme. Better watch out 'cause slicks are coming in 2020! :eek:
 
Does anybody know whether or not Ferodo DSUNO is the same compound as our factory pads? I still haven't been able to get verification of this and have been searching around.

I'm between DSUNO and Raybestos ST43 front pads and will be running stock rears for now. The only other thing I have to left to do is flush my brakes and put in Castrol SRF.

New wheels/tires are on and the car is already aligned. It's going to be a long 28 days until Sebring.
 

Bill Pemberton

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Sounds like you have plenty of time till Sebring, why not call a fellow Floridian and site sponsor, Optimum Performance , and get pads from him . I know the pads he sells work super well, I use them!!!!!
 
Does anybody know whether or not Ferodo DSUNO is the same compound as our factory pads? I still haven't been able to get verification of this and have been searching around.

The stock pads are “compatible with the DSUNO and DS1.11 without additional bedding” according to GT350brakes.

It better be. I just ordered DSUNO and plan on swapping back and forth with stock pads. Next track day is mid-Oct. I will report back then.
 

Bill Pemberton

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Remember to clean off the different pad material buildup on the rotors after the event. Good to see you are using a competition pad at the track, because the stock pads are pretty good, but those out there that are super aggressive in their braking style, can really heat up many a stock pad!
 

Norm Peterson

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Does anybody know whether or not Ferodo DSUNO is the same compound as our factory pads? I still haven't been able to get verification of this and have been searching around.

I'm between DSUNO and Raybestos ST43 front pads and will be running stock rears for now. The only other thing I have to left to do is flush my brakes and put in Castrol SRF.
I've been reading about Ferodos on another forum, and one of the things I'm hearing over there is that the ST43 is not easy to modulate, being kind of off/on in nature. Not a friendly characteristic for learning how to trail brake.

Friction vs temperature plots are available for some pad mfrs. Here's what I found for various Ferodo pads. Note that peak mu values are a bit lower than what you'll find for either Hawk or Carbotech/G-loc track pads (not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself).

Brake Pad Friction - Ferodo 4607821212.png


Norm
 
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Does anybody know whether or not Ferodo DSUNO is the same compound as our factory pads? I still haven't been able to get verification of this and have been searching around.

I'm between DSUNO and Raybestos ST43 front pads and will be running stock rears for now. The only other thing I have to left to do is flush my brakes and put in Castrol SRF.

I had the same question on the Ferodo's a couple years ago when I started tracking my '17 GT-PP. The factory pad is basically the D2500. I used the DSUNO pads for several weekends, and liked them (stock rears). I have also tried Pagid RST-3's (with RSL-29 rear IIRC), but had uneven wear (not pad's fault) and had to take them off before locking in an opinion. I've started using ST-45 (F), ST-43 (R), and just have one weekend on them at COTA. They seemed fine stopping from high-speed, again have not locked in a final opinion.
 
I had the same question on the Ferodo's a couple years ago when I started tracking my '17 GT-PP. The factory pad is basically the D2500. I used the DSUNO pads for several weekends, and liked them (stock rears). I have also tried Pagid RST-3's (with RSL-29 rear IIRC), but had uneven wear (not pad's fault) and had to take them off before locking in an opinion. I've started using ST-45 (F), ST-43 (R), and just have one weekend on them at COTA. They seemed fine stopping from high-speed, again have not locked in a final opinion.
Thanks for the input, you’re right in line with the pads I’ve been considering.

How was pad life with the DSUNO? Did you have any issues with ABS running the stock rear pads? What made you move away from this setup?

For the Raybestos pads, did you purchase new rotors? If not did you have any issues with shuddering after cleaning off the old compound?

Lastly, sorry for all the questions, are you switching back to street pads or just running a dedicated track setup?

My 350 is going to be 80% track duty since it’s a third car, but would like to take it out on the street every now and then.

Thanks again!
 

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