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Lets Talk Tires!

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Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
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5-10 Years
Durham, NC
Okay, priorities are changing, and my beloved Hankook R-S4 isn't available in my size right now... should spring roll around and I need tires ASAP, what decision should I make?

My priority is Time Trial and track, but I'm not as concerned about being competitive as I am about a good tire that will last. Hence, my beloved R-S4.

I also autocross some (4-18 times a year, next year probably closer to 6-8 times) in a class that requires 200tw, but I'm not above just moving it to ESP and have a go at some raw times or even just say "screw it" to autocross.

In 200tw, the only other real option would be a 275 Rival S1.5, or the RE71R, and I don't really want to run those on a track... although now that I'm going the TT route instead of HPDE, why not maybe?


One option could be the Toyo R888R. Similar in price to what I'm paying, seems to be a near spec tire of DE4 and NASA guys love it. For similar money, I could buy some Toyo RR too.

For a little more money, I could buy the BFG G-Force R1S or R1, or the Hoosier R7 or A7 for a little more yet!

I loved the durability my Hankooks gave me. Flipped, still a little tread for maybe one more track event, although their increasing desire for heat as they age is getting annoying. For records sake, I currently have an estimated 11 track days of roughly 4 sessions each plus 8 competition autocross events, AND some charity veteran ride alongs on these RS4 tires right now. If anything out there can match that in durability, I'm all ears.

I know that durability isn't going to match R-S4. What I'm curious about are thoughts on durability vs speed on my other options should it come to having to buy a not-R-S4 tire. Should I stick with the 200TW category, roll out on a Toyo, or for that money/durability level should I just go balls out and see what I can do with a set of R1S or A7's?

Second to durability, I'd like a 35 profile tire for an 18 inch wheel. The gearing of a 35 profile vs a 30 profile is about 8-10 mph in 4th gear, which is my sweet spot on several straightaways for tracks I run (Road Atlanta, VIR, Charlotte, etc.) to get the most out of my car before it dies in 5th. Seriously, its the difference in 122 vs 133 down the backstraight at VIR, so I'd like a 35 profile for that reason.

The primary width I'm looking at is 285, but I understand I may need to back down to a 275 to get the gearing I need as 285/30 is common, and 275/35 is common.


Can anyone give reports on how many events with an S197 they can get out of any of the tires listed above, or a tire I should consider that's not above?

PS - for classing in TT, I don't think tires will be an issue. I 've looked at the classing rules that NASA posts for this year and unless they change something, putting "autocross" tires on my car should keep me within my TT4 rules, no problem. I'm open to many suggestions.
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
Yokohama costs as much as a hoosier and lasts as long. I've looked at it.

Falkrn is an option. Its either a little wide or narrow on my application and in a 40 profile, but also a pile of junk. The 615k was practically spec tire of lemons and champ at one time. The k+ is softer, lasts less time, and god help you ever overheat it. Plus rs4 is faster.

Source - owned both.

I do appreciate the input and thinking of me though!
 
Yoko are 50$ less thank hoosier in line with other tires like 3R.
I had a 305mm nitto nt01. Although they are not the fastest for sure , i sold mine after 8 trackdays with still 3 minimum on them. Is predictable and good performamce tire.
Not sure the size and for sure not an everyday tire because they are noisy.



Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 
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are they unused? If they’re used and been sitting I’d pass.
 

Apex3V

Heel-n-Toe Enthusiast
are they unused? If they’re used and been sitting I’d pass.
I'll let you guys pass on them all day long, just more tires for me ;) . In reality though a 2016 dated tire really isn't that old and has a lot of usable life in them still. Even for just DE or TT you can prep them which can bring back some of the life that is supposedly being lost. @blacksheep-1 is the one we need to key in on this topic for sure so he can give away some of the go-fast secrets he's been hiding from us.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,352
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20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
The Yokes are great for Autocrossing , but the issue with TT is they get hot very fast. The became a big sensation at the Solo Nationals this year , but except for the Time Trialer that is super serious and just makes a few quick runs and then heads to the paddock they do not make alot of sense to me. Comparing to a Hoosier, they are not as fast nor do they have one huge benefit -- they can not effectively be flipped on the rims as they are directional!!

I have run Hoosiers for a very long time, as well as Pilot Sport Cup 2s, but due price increases I decided to switch over to BFG gforce R1S tires, as they have a significant savings over R7s, especially( and I had run them extensively in years past ). I would sometimes only get two weekends on the Hoosiers and I am getting ready for a third weekend on the BFGs and at the rate they are wearing I am anticipating even a 4th.

Not a fan of 3-4 year old tires, as they are seldom stored correctly and they do degrade with age, but if the driver is just doing an HPDE, then why not. If one wants to be competitive in Time Trials one has to view the best rubber available to their class, imho. Now , since many are in the situation where ultimate competition is not a their priority , and they want to participate in a auto crossing also, then a 200TW tire might be in their cards ( racing Class dependent). The fast ones are the RE71Rs, the A052 Yokes, and the BFG Rival 1.5S 200 TW rated tires. Luke Pavlik ( #4362 ) at Tire Rack states the BFGs don't get greasy as fast as the others -- use the Link to get your tires there and help out TMO.

Lastly the Falken definitely is not as quick on the Autocross course , primarily only used in the Spec Class, yet some feel it lasts a bit better on a road course, but there are heavy rumors coming out that the company may be on the cusp of developing some major tire changes, so may be the time to wait and see?

Lastly, with BFG being made in the US , they seem to have a price edge over the Japanese tires, and unfortunately since Continental purchased Hoosier their prices have gone up ( likely due to the buy in ).
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
You can also only trust what you're told when buying usee. If in a basement on carpet as I'm told, no heat, no cold, no uv Ray's, then they should be good to go.

I'm planning to buy next week unless I see a red flag
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,352
Exp. Type
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20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Been Autocrossing since 1981 and road racing since 1999 and have been sponsored over the years by Tire Rack ( in their super early years ), BFG and Yokohama Tire Store, Hoosier, and a Toyo Tire Store. All the owners and corporate friends have echoed that tires age and with the aggressive compounds today, you won't find folks running older tires if they desire to be very competitive. Older tires , for HPDEs, should be fine. I learned the hard way, showing up with the wrong tire ,width , compound , so many times over the years, that I pay serious attention to what the winning drivers are using , along with costs. Tyme and TMS will tell you I am not the sharpest tool in the box, but I am ultra observant and the basis of the above paragraph is talking to Industry folks at the Solo Nationals in Lincoln, Nebraska each year, along with chatting with said at various road racing/Time Trial events over the years-- NASA, SCCA, Viper Racing League, Viper Challenge Series, 10 different Racing Schools.

A personal observation is that the Hoosiers heat up quicker than the BFG gforce R1Ss ( on a road course ) , so the start of the race means you have to work doubly hard to heat up the BFG donuts, but during a 35 minute race , the BFGs seem to stay more constant. Though I really like the Hoosiers the two tires were close enough for me that the $300 savings with the BFGs swayed me.

Not suggesting cost is not part of tracking, it is, yet it is just part of the equation on hot competitive one wants to be.
 
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I'll let you guys pass on them all day long, just more tires for me ;) . In reality though a 2016 dated tire really isn't that old and has a lot of usable life in them still. Even for just DE or TT you can prep them which can bring back some of the life that is supposedly being lost. @blacksheep-1 is the one we need to key in on this topic for sure so he can give away some of the go-fast secrets he's been hiding from us.
I'm not worried about the date. My point was if they were already heat cycled on track and sat for a couple of years the grip will most likely not be very good.
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
True true. TT might get boring and I go back to HPDE. I did it for a new experience. We will see how it goes.

I was still pulling 1G on 4 year old 220tw Michelins at VIR in May, cutting laps within tenths of my best ever on that tire from 20 months earlier. These tires had been dailies through 2 NC winters at that point I may not get every last tenth out of these hankooks but... $$$
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,352
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Considering you have been doing quite a few track events I would hope that you running similar times of 20 months earlier was just improvements in your skill level and track time? Would bet a fresh set of rubber would now see you ahead seconds not within tenths of your best time. The two biggest plusses in going faster are 1) seat time and 2) tires. Good luck in figuring out your goals and the Time Trials are quite rewarding since they push you to fine tune your skills to beat your competition.
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
Not so sure. I dont know if you ever ran on proper street tires, but they never really fell off. Plus, i was running in 30 degree hotter temps than my best time that day so i dont think that was the case. Brand new pilot super sports wouldny be much faster.

I'm chasing tenths, not seconds these days. I'm almost always faster in the morning than afternoon if I'm even remotely familiar with the track.

These tires I'm looking to buy still have the Hankook tread ink or whatever on them. The wheels show no signs of sven ever been on a car and the owner claims (pictures to me prove) that they've never been under weight of a vehicle. I think I'm pouncing
Considering you have been doing quite a few track events I would hope that you running similar times of 20 months earlier was just improvements in your skill level and track time? Would bet a fresh set of rubber would now see you ahead seconds not within tenths of your best time. The two biggest plusses in going faster are 1) seat time and 2) tires. Good luck in figuring out your goals and the Time Trials are quite rewarding since they push you to fine tune your skills to beat your competition.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,352
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Duane, I am an old fart, and all we had to run in the old days were street rubber. I won a National Championship in a Viper running MXX3s,which were rock hard compared to what you have been running, so yes I am very aware of street tires. You asked for advice and that is all I have attempted to give you, so just take it for that and nothing more. As mentioned it all depends on how competitive you wish to be and all that was suggested were the hot tickets of today. Good luck and keep us posted on your successes.
 

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