Hi everyone, like the title says......
Here's my current status. Prepping for my 1st ever season of HPDE here in the NE with my 2012 GT.
I currently have a non brembo car with the factory 19 x 8.5" wheels which are mounted with 245/45 19 Indy 500's. The consensus I get here is that I'm going to want/need some wider rubber on track eventually I've read through all the brake and tire threads here many times and understand that I need to address the brakes first, which will be getting at the least, new pads and fluids before the season.
I've been driving the car on the street with some minor suspension and power mods for the last 2 years and enjoy wrenching on my own cars as much as driving. That being said, is there a reason NOT to continue the upgrades now? I know myself, and I'm not going to leave the current setup as is for long. Sure, i could run what I have. Or, since I really dont have any experience with how the car behaves on track in its current state, why wouldn't I do the brembo upgrade and get the better rubber on now, and begin the journey from there? The car is going to remain on the street also, not necessarily a DD though.
That being said, am I on the right track feeling that I could start the tire upgrade to something like the 275-285 r18 200-300 treadwear range? And why not do the 15" brembo upgrade? Pretty sure my stock 2 piston, 13" brakes are not gonna hold up at all, and I think the stock pads are still in there too. I have a modest budget which would allow for this round of upgrades and allow me to do a handful of track days this year as well, first HPDE is in April at Palmer!
Came across a closeout special at Tire rack for the Potenza S007a in 275/40r18 for under $130 each, which is what really inspired this post. Seems like a decent-ish tire to start with??

Thank you all for suffering through another newbie tire post!
Doug.

Welcome to the site and the sport.
A good general rule is to make it safe, make it stop and then make it grip.
Your car is 8-9 years old. Are all the bushings solid, no leaks, basic upkeep and maintenance done? You mentioned the brakes are originals?? Old and under sized for what you are stepping into. As a MINIMUM upgrade to a high temp fluid for when the fluid on the stock brakes boils, likely day one. Grip, go big early unless you want to have a set of wheels thats "almost" right for bigger tires. If so, let me know, I have a set. If you need tires now, try the set mentioned knowing you will likely be looking for more.... We all do.
For a first track day I would concentrate on safe and whatever your instructor tells you. Relax and enjoy. The mods will start to pile up once you see what you and the car needs.

Thank you for the reminder to check all the basics, will do. Not expecting anything major, garage kept and only 25k miles (bought with 8k, 2 years ago!) I'm leaning towards starting with the 18x10's and the 275's. curious to see how it feels with a slightly smaller tire diameter with my long 3.31 gears. I do love how long those gears pull, especially with the mild power upgrades I've done.

Well 1st thing is the deal on 18" tires isn't going to help if you have 19" wheels. 1st HPDE day is a learning day learning things like vision, what a line is, brake zone, apex, etc. You probably aren't going to do much more than freeway speeds. Concentrate on having a well tech'ed car. No leaks, proper oil level, new brake fluid, well flushed brakes, at least 50% life in brake pads, decent tread life on tires, factory alignment checked, and good starting air pressures. check/adjust your tire pressure and torque lug nuts before each session.

If your car is stock run that. This way you can find weak spots on track and mod as needed. If you start out with a bunch of mods you have no idea whether the changes are good or bad. Just because people sell a bunch of parts does not mean those parts will all work together.

Also if early HPDE leads you quickly down the path of time trials, auto-x, or racing they each have class rules. You don't want to buy some mod and then have to take it off to run a class with your new motorports friends.

Good ideas, but to be just a bit more specific , flush the system with a well known DOT4 brake fluid ( Like Motul 600 ) and frankly running Palmer , her some aggressive race pads. I assume you have not done any ducting for your brakes and that is really critical for brake rotor, pad and caliper life , so in the meantime if you are not doing the full system , you might look into the Vorshlag brake ducting plates.

Not sure why you are considering 18x10 rims and small tires, because if you are going to spend the money you might as well get 18x11s or 19x11s , and wider tires. Sure you are going to spend a little more, but you are not going to spend it twice. Frankly getting a set of ARP long studs is a great idea for everyone, because it is a safety issue and many of us end up riding the curbing at the track.

If you have the original rotors , get a new set to go with your new pads, since they are likely at the end of their life , may be a bit warped and new rotors are pretty darn cheap. Have fun at Palmer , and spend time learning the proper line, as it is a technical track with numerous blind corners for hitting the Apexes. Frankly technical tracks are some of the best to learn on, as it forces newcomers to focus on the track design and nuances instead of trying to show everyone or the Instructor how talented they may feel they are. It sounds like you have a very realistic approach, though, and being a sponge when you first go is a solid way to start your track life.

Doug I was in your exact spot a couple of years ago. I took what was basically a stock 2014 GT to VIR. I had upgraded the brake fluid (Motul 600) and front pads (Hawk HPS) on my non Brembo brakes. I did have new 400tw tires. After two days at VIR I had worn the (stock) rear brake pads down to the backing plates, melted the rear calipers, and ruined all four rotors.

I upgraded to 15 inch Brembos and added front brake cooling ducts as well as some safety mods. When I went to Road Atlanta a few months ago the brakes were great... but I was at the limit of my tires. So one thing leads to another.

I have more track time planned this season. At this point as far as tires go I'm leaning to keeping my non track focused tires for a little while. As a track newbie I appreciate the value of a tire that howls loudly and loses traction progressively. I think it will be good for learning car control right now. It's not good for fast lap times but that's not what I'm after. I want to be safe, have fun, and learn. In that order.

So my advice: brakes, safety, track time, then tires. That's what I'm doing anyway!

Welcome to the addiction...

I would just drive it for your first couple of events and get used to it. Even on the indys. I feel like it would be much more beneficial for you to get an understanding of it before you start lowering and adding sway bars and what not because if you just start throwing things on it before you know how the car feels or what you want out of it you will probably wast some money. (Ask me about my sway bar purchase I wish I would of waited on till finding this site). Also I’ve done a few track days on a pair of Indy 500s in a 265/40/19 are they the best? No. But they are great to learn on and let you know when your getting close to the limit. And they sure seem to last I have about 2-3 hpde days on them and there tread is still looking good but I’m upgrading this year. Anyways I would just do your brake upgrades Motul rbf better pads and go and have fun!

Lots of good advice here. I have a new set of Hawk DTC-60 front pads for the 2 piston calipers that I would be happy to contribute to your startup efforts if you drop me your address in the PM. These came with my car, I mounted them up with new Motorcraft blanks, but hadn’t even driven around the block when I stumbled on a Brembo deal I couldn’t pass up. Use the $220 saved on pads for a good brake duct setup and Dot 4 fluid flush - your front bearing hubs will thank you!

I'm not a racer...As long as they're round and hold air, I'm happy...My Contii Extremes fit the bill....

There you go!!!! Free pads. 67GTA You wouldn't happen to have a set of Pagid 29's laying around, do you? Asking for a friend. LOL

On an S197 brake upgrade and cooling cant be separated. Mount up the Hawks and get ducts and fluids. Great donation and suggestion.

ncpeds said:

Doug I was in your exact spot a couple of years ago. I took what was basically a stock 2014 GT to VIR. I had upgraded the brake fluid (Motul 600) and front pads (Hawk HPS) on my non Brembo brakes. I did have new 400tw tires. After two days at VIR I had worn the (stock) rear brake pads down to the backing plates, melted the rear calipers, and ruined all four rotors.

I upgraded to 15 inch Brembos and added front brake cooling ducts as well as some safety mods. When I went to Road Atlanta a few months ago the brakes were great... but I was at the limit of my tires. So one thing leads to another.

I have more track time planned this season. At this point as far as tires go I'm leaning to keeping my non track focused tires for a little while. As a track newbie I appreciate the value of a tire that howls loudly and loses traction progressively. I think it will be good for learning car control right now. It's not good for fast lap times but that's not what I'm after. I want to be safe, have fun, and learn. In that order.

So my advice: brakes, safety, track time, then tires. That's what I'm doing anyway!

Welcome to the addiction...

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I followed a similar patch, except my car had the 4 piston Brembo's from the factory, so I do not have any experience with the base 2 piston front brakes. I ran my first few events with Hawk HPS pads, Motul 600 fluid and Bridgestone SO4 Pole Positions (275-40-19) on my stock 19" x 9" wheels. I found out quickly that Advanced Track will eat your rear brakes if you do not at least run it in sport mode. Now I run it full off. I added Vorshlag 3" cooling ducts around the 4th or 5th track weekend which allowed me to run the Hawk HPS a couple more weekends before realizing that I really need more brake and switched to GLoc pads (R10 front R8 rear. The upgraded brake pads made the tires the weak link and I bought a set of Apex EC-7 19" x 10" wheels and mounted up a set of 200 tw 275-35-19 Nexen NFERA SUR4 tires. I didn't want to do the other supporting mods at the time to run 11" wheels on a dual use car. I still use my stock wheels and the Bridgestones as my street tires. They also double as rain tires since I have moved up the Toyo R888r's, since they can be scary in the rain.

Thanks everyone for the advice, really appreciate the help and everyone’s time responding. I’ll definitely take it all in, and stay focused on the progression, not the end result.

I’m completely an outsider to these high tech guys, but one thing that stands out to me is the one piece of advice I received when starting to track my car. “Learn on the hardest tires you can find”. When you learn your limits, your car’s limits, and the track line, start changing the car to get faster.

However, now I’m on vintage bias ply tires and I slide through every turn....

I know...I’m of no help whatsoever.

Learn on hard tires is good advice. I ran NT-05s as my first track tires. They never wore out, Sang like a bird and allowed me to learn "in Scale". Tires, brakes, suspension and driver all needed some, a lot of, work. None were much better than the other. Fantastic grip which smokes the brakes is no advantage.
Seeking out a solid instructor/mentor is also time well spent!!

TMSBOSS said:

smokes the brakes is no advantage.

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So True!!!!...smoking the brakes only benefits the manufacturer, not you.....the less brake you need, the better your driving skills are evolving.............I use no brakes at all....Just kidding...Just kidding!!!!!!....................I even have a parachute...just in case.JK...JK...........................just like a 4X4..these high HP cars can get you going in a hurry, but stopping is a whole different ball game.......................

In general, you want to do things in this order:
1) Make the car safe - no leaks, no loose items, good alignment, safe tires, etc.
2) Make the car stop - fluid, pads, cooling, Brembo upgrade, etc.
3) Make the car turn - wide wheels, sticky tires, suspension, etc.
4) Make the car fast - <Clarkson>POWER!!!</Clarkson>
Repeat as needed.
No use having 800HP and go steaming off the first turn into a tire wall.
Of course, wheels/tires can be moved earlier in the progression, but as others have said, I'm in the "learn on hard tires" camp. So you could spring for the 11" wide wheels, but still run 275 or 285 moderate-grip tires instead of 305 or 315 stickies.

I'm not sure if the S550 brake upgrade also requires changing the master cylinder so the F/R balance isn't wacky.

Always be upgrading the driver at every step. Really, after making the car safe and stop reasonably well, just work on your driving for a few events until you feel comfortable. Not sure about HPDEs, but at a local autocross you can often ask a good driver to take a run in your car as you ride passenger. You may be convinced you're driving the car as fast as possible and have hit a plateau, and the hot shoe will be 2 seconds faster. Sometimes they're able to pick up the throttle earlier or carry more speed at apex, but oftentimes, they'll just be smoother and more precise. They can give you feedback on any "evils" they feel in the car as well, that you may have thought was just normal. And they'll save you from spending money on a bunch of upgrades when you can just learn to drive faster.

First time out, it's probably best to drive the car that you already (sort of) know. Instead of trying to learn what's essentially a slightly different car at the same time you're trying to digest everything about track driving that's different from any driving that you have done.

Do Dave's items 1 and 2. Winter weather and temperatures in NH being what they tend to be, I can't tell you if you'll have enough driving time available between now and your first track day to be completely accustomed to new max or extreme summer tire behavior, though there wouldn't be any harm in taking advantage of the pricing now for your later track days. Palmer looks like a track where doing things gradually and conservatively is the right approach. Progressive tire behavior would be your friend.


Norm

There's a lot to learn from the voices of experience on TMO, for example, you won't get the "you need big aero, fat tires, and a blower" crowd on this page. Just common sense stuff

Getting good coaches was hard for me down here, but highly recommend racers 360 online coaching. Some times in at the track, its hard to focus on what a instructor is telling you. Found it very useful to get tips in video format.


edit: Thats said, I did go to every available track school I could find..... I think Racers360 would be better after you get some instruction under your belt.