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10R80 Automatic Trans Cooling Questions

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Enfact
For the mach1 they have UPGRADED the TC and the cooling.
That’s not really good news for you. I’d try to get those parts added, or at least that Mach 1 converter.

One clear instance where the lockup condition will ADD more heat is when and only when it starts slipping. That also happens with all the shifting, as it’s momentarily disengaged and locked cyclically. Just saying. And good luck.
 
That’s not really good news for you. I’d try to get those parts added, or at least that Mach 1 converter.

One clear instance where the lockup condition will ADD more heat is when and only when it starts slipping. That also happens with all the shifting, as it’s momentarily disengaged and locked cyclically. Just saying. And good luck.
I will. If only i knew what "upgraded TC" means..
 
111
79
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
These problems probably explain Ford's choice of a DCT in the GT500. It's not a cheap fix, but it is an effective one.
 
528
354
sfo
These problems probably explain Ford's choice of a DCT in the GT500. It's not a cheap fix, but it is an effective one.

I suspect It is a competitive choice trying to add panache to the chassis ala C8 vette and push the car into the relm of Ferrari porsche etc. Reality is every streetcar DCT fails on track from heat just like our autoboxes and have the additional failures of DCT vs. autotrans reliability. DCT's also have the added issue of needing computers to diagnose when they fail. Few have deep enough pockets trackside for that. I can't tell you how many BMW's with DCT's don't make it through the trackday and you can read the very few threads on Rennlist of those trying to race the PDK . For every 100 guys running manual porsches there is one guy trying to get the PDK to work. He is just like us trying to find our a$$es with both hands. If the Porsche PDK for example was so great for sake of production cheapness Porsche could have put the PDK in the GT3 cup but the cup has a real sequential box you can race and beat the living snot out of.
 
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3,978
OK, I just linked all the auto trans stuff, including Flyhalf's miniseries into an E mail and sent it to my buddy Paul Forte at Turbo Action transmissions in
Jax.
I suspect It is a competitive choice trying to add panache to the chassis ala C8 vette and push the car into the relm of Ferrari porsche etc. Reality is every streetcar DCT fails on track from heat just like our autoboxes and have the additional failures of DCT vs. autotrans reliability. DCT's also have the added issue of needing computers to diagnose when they fail. Few have deep enough pockets trackside for that. I can't tell you how many BMW's with DCT's don't make it through the trackday and you can read the very few threads on Rennlist of those trying to race the PDK . For every 100 guys running manual porsches there is one guy trying to get the PDK to work. He is just like us trying to find our a$$es with both hands. If the Porsche PDK for example was so great for sake of production cheapness Porsche could have put the PDK in the GT3 cup but the cup has a real sequential box you can race and beat the living snot out of.

hold that thought and go to.. post 5 @ https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/road-race-automatic-transmissions.18172/
 
111
79
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
If the Porsche PDK for example was so great for sake of production cheapness Porsche could have put the PDK in the GT3 cup but the cup has a real sequential box you can race and beat the living snot out of.

When has Porsche *ever* used a production box, auto or manual, on a Cup car? They've always been bespoke racing gearboxes because that's a real race car. It's only a production car tub.

As far as the PDK goes, that's exactly what's in all the GT4 Caymans and they run forever. It's also in the 700HP GT2 RS Clubsport where it works perfectly. So if you're saying because you know a guy that had trouble tracking a 2011 model that they don't work now is not even remotely correct.
 
528
354
sfo
When has Porsche *ever* used a production box, auto or manual, on a Cup car? They've always been bespoke racing gearboxes because that's a real race car. It's only a production car tub.

As far as the PDK goes, that's exactly what's in all the GT4 Caymans and they run forever. It's also in the 700HP GT2 RS Clubsport where it works perfectly. So if you're saying because you know a guy that had trouble tracking a 2011 model that they don't work now is not even remotely correct.
The gt4 and gt2rs are streetcars. The gt2rs they make 25 of those $600k hyper 911’s. Those aren’t for tracking. They are for Rich guys with big swinging d!cks who want to be seen. the regular person gt3 and gt4 are the most track ready streetcars made they still won’t race without cooling mods. Lot of racers don’t have $220k for a sequential boxed gt3 cup. They can buy a toaster 718 cayman pdk for $70k and convert that to a racecar and they have to go through the cooling problems just like us. I cannot think of a single racer, racing a converted streetcar without being forced to upgrade cooling. If you can you aren’t going fast enough.
 
111
79
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
The gt4 and gt2rs are streetcars. The gt2rs they make 25 of those $600k hyper 911’s. Those aren’t for tracking. They are for Rich guys with big swinging d!cks who want to be seen. the regular person gt3 and gt4 are the most track ready streetcars made they still won’t race without cooling mods. Lot of racers don’t have $220k for a sequential boxed gt3 cup. They can buy a toaster 718 cayman pdk for $70k and convert that to a racecar and they have to go through the cooling problems just like us. I cannot think of a single racer, racing a converted streetcar without being forced to upgrade cooling. If you can you aren’t going fast enough.

The fact that a street car needs extra cooling on track is pretty bloody obvious. The questions are these, How much cooling is needed? and Once cooling is addressed, can the box handle the duty cycle? In the case of the PDK, the additional cooling is not an onerous task and it's completely sound with respect to the duty cycle. I run them (GT4's, but I've run/raced the present GT2 and 935 as well, they're all PDK's) all the F'ing time, so don't attempt to come across as some authority that you're not. I'm not guessing here. I'm writing about shiznit I know.

Having a torque converter instead of a dual clutch creates much more heat and is a less robust way to accomplish the task. It is, however, also much less expensive. The question as to whether the A10 can be converted to track use is open, but it appears as it's a bit more than the trivial task of throwing an extra trans cooler from the JC Whitney catalog on it. My guess is that it can be used, but that it takes quite a few modifications. I'll also guess that whatever issue we find on track has already been found by Ford during development and probably had something, although creating the halo car is also a very good justification, to do with them not using it for the GT500. It shouldn't surprise us that the Mach1 modifications include the torque converter.

My comment was little more than a musing about why they may have used the DCT in the GT500, because I see what appears to be bone stock Shelbys turning lap after lap without an issue.
 
Preliminary results for the 10r80 mustang bypass.
In usual runs the temps goes up to 190 fnamd stabilize around that.
Video shows temps max around 106f
Mostly constant speed. (Some traffic some donwshifting etc)

On the way back and 10f higher temps temps started around 110.
Went up to 115
And once on highway dropped to 98f

Dec12 track usage will determine if it does do anything. Regular driving results are at least encouraging.
Ps. I tried multiple 3sec water spray on it but without effect.
The cooler is also boxed.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
I'm not guessing here. I'm writing about shiznit I know.
😆

Ps. I tried multiple 3sec water spray on it but without effect.
The energy dissipated in that time by water is negligible. More time and more mass evaporated are needed for that to work.

My ‘00 drag car would evaporate almost a quart in a 10 sec pass for example. That was just for the s/c intake charge.
 
528
354
sfo
I run them (GT4's, but I've run/raced the present GT2 and 935 as well, they're all PDK's) all the F'ing time, so don't attempt to come across as some authority that you're not. I'm not guessing here. I'm writing about shiznit I know.
We could really use your expertise on the Rennlist racing forum.
 
Ale,

Were you able to keep the bypass "always open?"

Were you able to open the bypass bigger than stock A10?
Yes always open. But still using same valve with the timeglass shape. Next and final upgrade is to make the " neck" of the timeglass valve thinner, smaller to allow even more flow. U cant remove the valve though. Valve seal the rest of the conduit.
 
111
79
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
Preston Calvert could F-up an anvil.


I've slept since then, but this was definitely in Utah during a PWC weekend and I think there might have been a little trip into the wall coming onto the pit straight prior to this picture.
 
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3,978
Preston Calvert could F-up an anvil.


I've slept since then, but this was definitely in Utah during a PWC weekend and I think there might have been a little trip into the wall coming onto the pit straight prior to this picture.
he wasn't in the car that day, car ran over the curbs, punched the undertray up into the carbon fiber oil tank, oil ran down headers, pooled back in the undertray and lit.
 
111
79
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
he wasn't in the car that day, car ran over the curbs, punched the undertray up into the carbon fiber oil tank, oil ran down headers, pooled back in the undertray and lit.

Ok, I'll lay off Preston for that one

I didn't remember exactly what happened, but knew there was a 'by the way'.
 

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