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S197 2011 Mustang 3.7 Performance Package, Shooting my shot at CAM-C Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

Looks like some nice runs. Did you feel there was more grip on the concrete section? On the Day 1 vid, you get loose after going back onto the asphalt, like you had gotten used to the concrete gip level and didn't recalibrate when you left it.

When I walk a course, I'll scuff my sneakers across anything that looks like a change in surface to see if I can feel a change in grip. That sometimes gives me a clue I can use on the first run.
Seneca Falls army depot is definitely unique with the concrete and asphalt sections. You 100% have to account for surface when figuring out your line/plan.

unfortunately the mistake you saw in the video (albeit a large one lol) was the result of me getting greedy and forgetting the plan based on the surface. We had drying conditions in the morning on day 1, by the time I got to the 3rd run I was pushing the envelope to see where I could find time. With the increased grip from the drying course, especially the concrete section, I overestimated how much traction the car had heading onto the asphalt… things got loose real quick

luckily I saved it and kept pushing for the rest of the run, resulting in my fastest time of the day. But hindsight being what it is, I can help but wonder how my overall pax would’ve shifted with a faster run on day 1

there’s always next year! Lol
 
Mid summer update:

After taking the past 4 weeks off from racing, it's time to gear up for a PACKED August schedule. Over the past month, I haven't touched the car as my wife and I were on a cross country honeymoon trip. 15 days, 7000 miles, 17 states. It was incredible to see a little more of this great country!

Back to the slow pony...

We are still having brakes issues with this car, and it does not inspire confidence. Problem #1 is that the cheap power stop track day pads have worn the Raybestos R300 rotors in a really weird way (see below). This pads EAT rotors fairly quickly and have NASTY dust (I use them as a combo commuter/autocross pad)
IMG_0681.jpeg
Problem #2 is that the car still will overheat the brakes under very specific conditions. When we run with small local clubs and co-drive the car within the same heat, the car will eventually get a soft pedal. The last time this happened was at a NYRSCCA event with a fast 60+mph finish (solostorm data showed the car was trapping ~65mph) into a hard brake zone/short run off before pulling right back into the grid spot. Obviously this was less than ideal and provided no time to get any air flow through the brakes. After 12 consecutive hot laps on the 50+ second course, the pedal went soft and I called it a day (we had already won CAM anyway lol)

Yesterday pulled the front brakes apart and upgraded the pads and rotors. Out when the raybestos R300/Powerstop track day combo and in it's place went Gloc R6 pads with Raybestos high carbon rotors. While I was in there I finally made the jump from Motul RBF600 to Castrol SRF, it's expensive but I'm tired of fluid woes. Lastly I threw a set of caliper temp strips on the front brembos to get some better data
IMG_0679.jpegIMG_0680.jpeg

Initial street impressions of the new Glow R6 from OP Mustang are awesome. The initial bite is INCREDIBLE. I'm shooting for 6 autocross events in August, will let y'all know hot they hold up

The official slow pony brake package now consists of the following if anyone is looking to replicate for autocross/street use:

-Boss 302 Brembos calipers ($400 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-Raybestos High carbon Rotors (PN 680497 $97 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-GLOC R6 pads ($191 @ OP Mustang)
-OP mustang Titanium shims ($80 @ OP Mustang)
-Castrol SRF
-Boss 302 Reinforced rubber lines ($100 @ American Muscle)
-Porsche 964 air deflectors on the front control arms ($60 @ Pelican Porsche)
-Removed fog lights/trimmed fender liners to create a path for airflow to the inner fenders/air deflectors

Gotta love a parts bin special!

More updates coming soon,
-J
 
Man, your brake issues are so weird. Autocross isn't that hard on brakes (usually). Of course, I had low pedal/shitty brake issues for several years and only fixed it with Wilwood 6 pot on the front and replacing calipers and brackets on the rear. I suspect the rears were really my problem, but firing the parts cannon fixed it.

Are you going to be able to make the CAM challenge in Peru?

DaveW
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
588
687
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
That rotor wear looks like it could be a runout/wobble issue. You might want to check the new rotors - with the wheel off, clamp the rotor down with the lug nuts (and washers if needed), then spin the rotor around and see if it wobbles in relation to the caliper. Ideally you'd use a dial indicator, but you might be able to feel an issue with your finger. If you have a wobble, pull the rotor and check the hub face is clean and the rotor seats evenly.
 
Man, your brake issues are so weird. Autocross isn't that hard on brakes (usually). Of course, I had low pedal/shitty brake issues for several years and only fixed it with Wilwood 6 pot on the front and replacing calipers and brackets on the rear. I suspect the rears were really my problem, but firing the parts cannon fixed it.

Are you going to be able to make the CAM challenge in Peru?

DaveW
I’ve been up in air about the CAM challenge, it’s been a goal of mine since starting this build. As of right now, it’s not looking great. If anything it will be a last minute sign up/road trip
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,837
5,900
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Going to the bigger SCCA Solo Events ( National Tours ) are great places to have fun and ask others the big questions. I have learned more about quality mods and things that don't really work by going to bigger Autocross Events over the years and it sounds like Dave_W will be there, so there is another brain you can pick! Good luck in your quest................
 
Spent some time this week getting the car prepared for Sunday's event with NNJR and the car is just about ready to go (need to swap the 315s over tmw). Aside from the brake changes, we'll also be testing out some rear aero on the car to see if we can take things up a level.

As with everything on this car, the rear aero was done on a budget with some backyard engineering. Keep in mind this I just phase 1 and it will continue to change/evolve over time. The goal for adding a rear spoiler was to increase rear grip, especially on higher speed sectors, while also allowing us to dial in more rotation for low speed corners. ***Disclaimer, I've never had a car with aero nor built any aero parts so this is purely experimental lol

What we used:
Junkyard trunk lid ($100)
Late model lexan spoiler kit from Pitstop USA (6.5 inch x 60 70 degree rake) Spoiler kit
Spoiler plugs and weatherstripping from Amazon
Hardware kit from Allstar performance
Steel flat bar for brackets
Good ol' rustoleum rattle cans

It's far from a maximized aero setup for CAM class (10 inch spoiler allowance)and it sure isn't pretty, but it also cost less than half of what Joefis Racing wanted to build a legit rear spoiler setup for the car

Since putting installing the spoiler, I've run it up over autocross speeds (you know.. down in Mexico of course) and there was no fluttering/flapping out back. Looking forward to seeing if this will make a tangible difference this weekend, hopefully solo storm can give us some relevant data to compare to previous events to see if there is any quantitative benefit

Will be back soon with updates
-J



Screen Shot 2022-08-05 at 4.53.31 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-08-05 at 4.58.50 PM.png
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,837
5,900
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Heh, it looks pretty darn good in my estimation, and 100% better than many I have seen. Plus that blacked out back and trunk lid just add to the intimidation factor of the your clear spoiler. I would say you are exhibiting the true spirit of the CAM Class and I see seconds falling off your times!
 
Last edited:
63
82
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Illinois
Mid summer update:

After taking the past 4 weeks off from racing, it's time to gear up for a PACKED August schedule. Over the past month, I haven't touched the car as my wife and I were on a cross country honeymoon trip. 15 days, 7000 miles, 17 states. It was incredible to see a little more of this great country!

Back to the slow pony...

We are still having brakes issues with this car, and it does not inspire confidence. Problem #1 is that the cheap power stop track day pads have worn the Raybestos R300 rotors in a really weird way (see below). This pads EAT rotors fairly quickly and have NASTY dust (I use them as a combo commuter/autocross pad)
View attachment 77828
Problem #2 is that the car still will overheat the brakes under very specific conditions. When we run with small local clubs and co-drive the car within the same heat, the car will eventually get a soft pedal. The last time this happened was at a NYRSCCA event with a fast 60+mph finish (solostorm data showed the car was trapping ~65mph) into a hard brake zone/short run off before pulling right back into the grid spot. Obviously this was less than ideal and provided no time to get any air flow through the brakes. After 12 consecutive hot laps on the 50+ second course, the pedal went soft and I called it a day (we had already won CAM anyway lol)

Yesterday pulled the front brakes apart and upgraded the pads and rotors. Out when the raybestos R300/Powerstop track day combo and in it's place went Gloc R6 pads with Raybestos high carbon rotors. While I was in there I finally made the jump from Motul RBF600 to Castrol SRF, it's expensive but I'm tired of fluid woes. Lastly I threw a set of caliper temp strips on the front brembos to get some better data
View attachment 77829View attachment 77830

Initial street impressions of the new Glow R6 from OP Mustang are awesome. The initial bite is INCREDIBLE. I'm shooting for 6 autocross events in August, will let y'all know hot they hold up

The official slow pony brake package now consists of the following if anyone is looking to replicate for autocross/street use:

-Boss 302 Brembos calipers ($400 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-Raybestos High carbon Rotors (PN 680497 $97 for the pair @ Rockauto)
-GLOC R6 pads ($191 @ OP Mustang)
-OP mustang Titanium shims ($80 @ OP Mustang)
-Castrol SRF
-Boss 302 Reinforced rubber lines ($100 @ American Muscle)
-Porsche 964 air deflectors on the front control arms ($60 @ Pelican Porsche)
-Removed fog lights/trimmed fender liners to create a path for airflow to the inner fenders/air deflectors

Gotta love a parts bin special!

More updates coming soon,
-J
Late to the party. Pros and Cons of using a 2.5" spring setup on the Koni struts? I just installed Vorshlag StreetPro Bilsteins in March. Stock spring is limiting my camber.
 
Late to the party. Pros and Cons of using a 2.5" spring setup on the Koni struts? I just installed Vorshlag StreetPro Bilsteins in March. Stock spring is limiting my camber.
To catch you up and give you some context:

I already had the Konis from my failed experiment to run the V6PP in SCCA's D Street class. Given that this car is built on a budget, it made sense to reuse the Konis and repackage them with higher rate springs for the CAM build. Also Koni has their million mile warranty which is useful on a car that sees daily use on NYC roads (I've blown a handful of Konis over the years on Civics, CRX's, Subaru etc and Koni stands by their product).

I chose to go the route less travelled using the GC coiler sleeves/Camber plates instead of off the shelf lowering springs for a few reasons:

1) I could pick my own spring rate/easily play with different rates

2) I could pick my ride height. This was important for me because of the shiznit roads up in the northeast AND I wanted to keep the geometry close to stock (I am not an engineer so I keep it close to how Ford designed it, avoiding bumpsteer issues and subsequently the parts to correct it)

3)I have an early 2011 S197 which are known for throwing "nibbles" through the EPAS system when lowered too much (I have no plans to spend $1100 to replace the steering rack with a Boss 302r rack)

3) I could get more camber due to the smaller spring package while running "street" camber plates. (from past experience, I don't like running open bearing camber plates on street cars that see salt)

The only cons that I can think of with this setup is that it took some trial and error to get everything setup exactly how I wanted up front. Since my initial consultation and order with GC I've changed the front spring length/rate, added RE suspension helper spring collars+Hyperco helper springs, cut the strut top openings with the Vorschlag jig and slotted the lower strut bolt holes to get the magic -3 degrees we all want.

It's not a perfect setup and its not for everyone, but it works for me. There are plenty of other tried and true setups for these cars out there, it all depends what your intended use is as well as your budget.

If you want any more info on my setup, feel free to shoot me a message and I'll go into more detail.

Best,
-J
 
On your brakes, (and I probably mentioned this already) but you are 100% sure that your rear calipers are good, and more importantly, the brackets are not bent and the pads move easily on the bracket?


As mentioned above I chased crap brake and pedal for a long time on my car and it ended up being the rear brackets not letting the pads move properly.

Even when I got a good pedal, the car had shitty braking power, but I didn't really notice it and kind of compensated by braking early, etc. And they tended to get hotter than I would expect.

The reason I mention it again is that I just chased the exact same problem on a customers DD Honda CRV. Rear pads were hanging up in the brackets that were apparently tweaked. The actual symptom was a low brake pedal in this case, but even after I bled it like crazy and the pedal felt ok in the shop, it just had no braking power and I could get the front brakes smoking in one 1/2 mile trip around our industrial park. The pedal was decent, but there was just no braking power. It was hard to quantify how ba it was before until I fixed it.

DaveW
 
On your brakes, (and I probably mentioned this already) but you are 100% sure that your rear calipers are good, and more importantly, the brackets are not bent and the pads move easily on the bracket?


As mentioned above I chased crap brake and pedal for a long time on my car and it ended up being the rear brackets not letting the pads move properly.

Even when I got a good pedal, the car had shitty braking power, but I didn't really notice it and kind of compensated by braking early, etc. And they tended to get hotter than I would expect.

The reason I mention it again is that I just chased the exact same problem on a customers DD Honda CRV. Rear pads were hanging up in the brackets that were apparently tweaked. The actual symptom was a low brake pedal in this case, but even after I bled it like crazy and the pedal felt ok in the shop, it just had no braking power and I could get the front brakes smoking in one 1/2 mile trip around our industrial park. The pedal was decent, but there was just no braking power. It was hard to quantify how ba it was before until I fixed it.

DaveW

Very interesting to see that issue come up on a regular daily driver. I think you might be right that rear calipers were contributing to the original brake issues we had with the car over the first two years of auto crossing it. This year following the incident and subsequent replacement rear end build/install, I bit the bullet and put two new calipers out back.

I will say following this weekend's event, I think this season's issue was purely fluid and pad related. With the Castrol SRF and GLOC R6 pads up front, there was not a hint of fade or soft pedal. We did 14 hot laps (2 driver car) on a 55+ second course in 95+ degree heat without a single issue. The initial bite on the R6 pads recommended by @OPMustang Tim are no joke!!!!
 
Post NNJR update:

Got to put the new rear spoiler & front brake setup to the test this past weekend on 315 Falkens (did not have time to install Eibach front bar due to parts delay from Tasca), overall the results were pretty impressive in my opinion

Took first in CAM by about half a second, and 26 PAX out of 81 entries (including 13 Pros). Car felt very good especially in the transitions and slalom. The car had great turn-in on the sweepers but I felt some "push" mid corner and on exit. I tried to take out some front rebound and increase the rear somewhat (ran single adjustable Konis on both ends at this event), but ultimately did not have enough time between runs to really play with the setup

Have two local events this weekend that I'd like to use as a test n tune on the 285 Falkens and see if I can get the setup a little more dialed in before making any hardware changes

Action Shot:
Screen Shot 2022-08-08 at 8.28.18 PM.png

Go Pro Clips with Solostorm Data overlays:
Dad's Best Run 57.4xx
Jon's Best Run 55.9xx

As always would love to driver/setup feedback from the TMO communty

Should have some additional updates for y'all next week

-J
 
End of August Update:

Was able only able 4 events in within the last few weeks, 2 local events at the Coliseum and 2 events over at NNJR. So far I'm pretty happy with the car, but there is always room for improvement.

The good:
-The car has been pretty fast, finally broke into the top 20 PAX at NNJR! (not an easy feat with the regular pro class population)
-The spoiler works, I've been able to increase the rear rebound immensely to get the low speed rotation I want while keeping the car tame at higher speeds (Can't wait to get the double adjustable back from Vi-king and dial them in)
- the 315 Falken's have held up well with over 120+ runs

The Bad:
-Had a FRPP front hub go bad with less than 10k miles (possible contribution to the front brake issue, nice catch @Dave_W )
-Corded one of the 285/30/18 falkens I use for local events/summer dailies, luckily have a spare leftover from last year to get by temporarily. Need to reassess the tire situation
-Car needs on big lot power courses, it really is a momentum car more than anything else

Run videos from the last NNJR event below, was a big open power course so we knew it would be an uphill battle against the V8's. Came out quick and jumped to an early lead which I was able to hold for 5 runs, but struggled to find time on late runs netting a 3rd place finish. Great battle with some good competition, literally one tenth separating the top 3 cars in class. Looking back at the data, I really think I blew the last sweeper which led to a slow finish (these 3.7's don't make much power or tq at low rpms lol).

Dad's Fastest (although he obliterated a cone on this run)


Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 12.05.32 PM.png

My Fastest


Comparing Dad's run and mine, I think he needs to focus on throttle maintenance as opposed to being more aggressive with the throttle. We set up the throttle channel on the solo storm/racecapture and will continue to compare data at the next few events.

September looks pretty decent with 3-4 possible events on schedule. Anyone from TMO running the 2 day event at Pocono with NEPA SCCA on 9/17-9/18?

Slowly amassing some new bits for the off-season, will see where we can take the car in 2023

-J
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
588
687
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
Congratulations, 3rd is very good considering the big guns that show up at NNJR. Both runs look good. There are a couple places later in the run where it looks like your dad may be flicking the wheel in fast transitions where you are a bit smoother with the inputs. Smooth is fast. If you crank the wheel too fast, you end up "scuffing" the contact patch of the tire across the ground as the wheel pivots, which leads to push. I wonder if your dad thinks the car has a bit more understeer than you think it has, especially on turn-in and fast transitions. It's not a big difference between the two videos, though, so I may be over-analyzing. Just drive it and have fun!
 

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