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S197 2011 Mustang 3.7 Performance Package, Shooting my shot at CAM-C Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

64
57
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Florida
Off-season update: November Edition

The 2022 autocross season has came and went, and the mustang is now officially in winter daily mode. That means snow tires, stock rear shocks, pedestrian ceramic brake pads, no more rear wing, and a boring 87 octane tune 😑.

Reflecting this season, I have to say I'm proud of how far we've come. We rebuilt the car after an unfortunate end to the 2021 season, shook it down, tried out a few new mods, hit a couple national tour events, and somehow won the Finger Lake Champ Tour. We never made it to Solo Nats or the CAM challenge, but there is always next year...

That being said, we've got some plans to make the car even more competitive for 2023. Would love to get some feedback and suggestions from the TMO brain trust as we continue to develop the car and prove the viability of the slow pony

As the season progressed, it became evident we need to make a few more suspension adjustments to get the car setup for the Eaton rear end:

1) We need more front grip. The car is sitting with -2.9 degrees of camber, I want to try -3.2 and will slot the struts until I get there. Will continue running the 400lb front springs/Konis as I like the balance of this package for a street car

2) I'd like some more rotation from the rear end. We ran most of the season on Koni Yellows with Factory Boss 302 springs. As much as I liked this setup with the trac-lok rear, it was never consistently fast with the Eaton diff. I'll be reinstalling the freshened up Vi-King double adjustable shocks and playing with rebound/compression settings in the spring

3) In addition, I planning to finally install the Ground Control weight jackers/divorced coil-overs I've had on the shelf for 2 years. I want to try to lower the rear about a half inch to take some rake out of the car and try a heavier spring rate. Thinking 200lbs similar to the cortex setup (IIRC 400F/200R for the "street" setup), but considering 225lbs (also trying to preserve some ride quality). I like the 20mm rear bar so that'll stay for now

4) Might spring for a full corner balance this year to really try and get the car as dialed in as possible


Another issue that is becoming more and more apparent is the power differential between our essentially stock 3.7 and the big v8 cars. This is really on a big factor on extremely long courses like Pocono infield. The way I see it, there are 2 ways to remedy this: A) add more power or B) lose some weight. So we'll be doing both lol. I figure the car has maybe 260whp as it sits with 93 race tune and weighed in at 3457lbs last time I had it on the SCCA scales

Part 1 Power MODS:

1) I picked up a used set of BBK shorty headers locally for $175, and already installed them over a weekend. I know these offer minimal top end gains, but they do improve low-mid range torque (which is something we don't have with 227 cubic inches). Based solely on the seat of the pants, the torque is noticeable on the street, I'm hoping this will help with acceleration out of tighter corners on course

2) Considering the cost vs benefit ratio of having the 2 piece plastic intake manifolds ported. I've spoken to a few places, but $450-600 for a a few hp doesn't really fit the theme of this build. TBD

3) Retune. I love the basemap Ortiz Performance put together for the car, but I actually need to datalog it and get some revisions done to maximize the setup/changes. Might push the redline up past 7500rpm to get a few more MPH in 2nd gear

With a healthy motor and the right mods, these little 3.7's can make 300whp on 93 octane. I don't think my setup will be that strong, but any HP improvement has to help close the gap. Trying to avoid the expense of setting the car up E85 for the time being

Part 2 Weight Reduction Plan, looking to pull 75-100lbs out of the car:

- shorty headers saved -3lbs over the cast iron manifolds

- removed front strut bar -7lbs

- Picked up a set of Flowtech Axlebacks at the Holley garage sale, a steal at $180! The pair weigh 16lbs in total. I've read that the GT500 mufflers currently on the car are ~46lbs. So there's at least -25lbs

-Actually clean out the interior at events (remove F/R floor mats, take out SCT tuner from console, empty glovebox, etc) Has to be good for -5lbs

-Looking at a Deka or Odyssey lightweight battery to run only at National Tour events. Should be good for -15lbs

- Considering switching from a 315 Falken RT660 to a 295 Bridgeston RE71RS which says a 4lb difference per corner. So potentially 16lbs of unsprung weight savings

That alone should get the car below 3400lbs without sacrificing any streetability. Will continue to look for other options to add lightness without spending a ton of money


There's a lot to do and never enough time, but I'll keep amassing parts until spring arrives. In the meanwhile I'm going to attempt building a PC/SIM racing rig to keep sharp in the offseason.

-J
Great update brother. I highly recommend the ported intake. Here’s the trick: port the upper and lowers to match (the real gains are in the lowers).
then get the GT throttle body machined to bolt into the intake, you’ll need a new coupler for your CAI to match to the throttle body. I have an airraid intake so it was the size of the GT throttle body already.
Make sure to get the s197 gen 1 coyote throttle body, the newer ones won’t work.
I can confirm this helps tremendously in the mid and high range. I have shorties too!

bmr motor mounts will save you about 10 lbs. remove the exhaust and axle weights.

I noticed I was running slower towards the end of the season and my clutch failed shortly after. The ram HDX only gave me 2 years of service and about 26k miles. You may feel slow due to a poorly performing clutch. It’s subtle, but it was slipping and slowing me down.
 
IMO, (ignoring the street ride issue, which is shocks as much as anything) keep throwing rear spring at it until it rotates like you want.
I realize it's not the same thing, but with my stock Coyote motor, I feel down on power against even the 2015+ cars and certainly the ZL1 Camaros running at the top. I certainly am down when I run non SCCA and get grouped with cars like JJ's, etc.

Speaking in general terms, when my car is fast, it rotates easily so I can brake early, turn early and get back on the power as early as possible to maximize acceleration (and shorten distance). In reality, we all run about the same tire so we can kind of all put the same power down (setup dependent) so if your lower power and setup allows you to pick up the throttle sooner and more, its faster in the end.

I have set of 295 Bridgestones I am going to test/run at the Allies V Axis tour in December I will report back. A buddy put a set on his Cayman GT4 and they appear to be very good. We can't back to back with Yokohama on that car since Yoks are on perpetual backorder but I can on mine. Even on a 33 degree day, he embarrassed the rest of us pretty handily (he can drive too, its not all tires)

View attachment 81211

DaveW
Very interested to hear how the Stones stack up against the Yoks back to back. Please report back with your findings!

Thinking 225lb springs with the Vikings might be the way to go out in the rear...
 

xr7

TMO Addict?
560
605
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Minnesota
Did the rear spoiler make a noticeable improvement running autocross? Aero is the next area I'm looking at for improved times.
 
Great update brother. I highly recommend the ported intake. Here’s the trick: port the upper and lowers to match (the real gains are in the lowers).
then get the GT throttle body machined to bolt into the intake, you’ll need a new coupler for your CAI to match to the throttle body. I have an airraid intake so it was the size of the GT throttle body already.
Make sure to get the s197 gen 1 coyote throttle body, the newer ones won’t work.
I can confirm this helps tremendously in the mid and high range. I have shorties too!

bmr motor mounts will save you about 10 lbs. remove the exhaust and axle weights.

I noticed I was running slower towards the end of the season and my clutch failed shortly after. The ram HDX only gave me 2 years of service and about 26k miles. You may feel slow due to a poorly performing clutch. It’s subtle, but it was slipping and slowing me down.
Picked up a set of junkyard intakes this weekend to ship out to AMR for porting…. Looking forward to seeing how they perform with an updated tune

Have you put your setup on the dyno?
 
Did the rear spoiler make a noticeable improvement running autocross? Aero is the next area I'm looking at for improved times.
With the rear aero and Koni shocks/rear boss springs, I was very comfortable to pushing the limits of the car this season

Never did back to back testing with/without aero but I can tell you the biggest “seat of the pants” difference was how the car drove in high speed slaloms.

Overall the car is easier to drive and the addition of the rear aero really let me crank up the rear Koni shock rebound. This improved low speed rotation without making the car too edgy in high speed sectors.

Next season I’m looking forward to testing the aero and dialing in the setup with the rear coilovers installed and Viking shocks back on the car
 
Very interested to hear how the Stones stack up against the Yoks back to back. Please report back with your findings!
Remember this is on the practice course, so it may not mean crap. Tomorrow in competition will be more of an indicator..

it was 65-70 degrees today. I took 3 runs on the practice course on the Yokohama. First was a throw away as I found the course itself and knocked rust off my brain after running the last two events in either 60 degree rain on an oil slick lot or 33 degrees.

Second and 3rd were decent with my best being 28.4

I put the Bridgestones on and ran 3 more. First run was terrible with too high of pressure (and sticker tires) Second one was 28.3 and followed up with a 28.1.

3/10 is not insignificant on a short course, but I also did drive one element better in the second set of runs compared to first. The feel is *completely* different between the tires, with the RE having better turn in and feedback. Much better than the shitty Yokohama, but no where near Falken or especially old RE71 levels.

Plan is to run the RE's tomorrow and we will see how it stacks up in actual competition. I am not familiar with all the guys in my class, but I do know Brian Burdette (Evo instructor) and he is generally stinking fast so I have my hands full just competing.

DaveW
 
17
16
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
North Alabama
Are the G-Loc R6 pads fairly street-friendly? I’m looking to do a brake upgrade soon on my car but it is a daily. I’m fine with some dust but don’t want to have a ton of squealing or anything.
 
Are the G-Loc R6 pads fairly street-friendly? I’m looking to do a brake upgrade soon on my car but it is a daily. I’m fine with some dust but don’t want to have a ton of squealing or anything.
I love them for their initial bite and autocross manners but use them as a summer daily pad (April-November). They dust much less than other pads I used previously (Powerstop track day/porterfield R4S), but definitely more than stock. I got them from @OPMustang Tim along with titanium shims and Castrol SRF, couldn't be happier. Give him a call and he'll point you in the right direction.

They do squeak intermittently at low speeds on colder days, but I find the tradeoff to be worth it so far.

Hopefully that's somewhat helpful lol,
J
 
I am also happy with the GLoc R6 for autocross, not sure on the street manners. They never squeak but do seem dusty *but*I don't have a reference on dust since we haven't had a street pad or street driven the car in a long time.

On The RE71RS, they are pretty good. 8th index, 1.4 second class lead. Need to back it up tomorrow. Feedback is better still than Yok's, but not spectacular. I am still playing with pressures, with my stretch fit (295 on 12" wheel) I can apparently go much lower than I would have expected.



318329351_10230336263696348_7418803731262392414_n.jpg

318335062_10230336263616346_2995751643227794566_n.jpg
 
I am also happy with the GLoc R6 for autocross, not sure on the street manners. They never squeak but do seem dusty *but*I don't have a reference on dust since we haven't had a street pad or street driven the car in a long time.

On The RE71RS, they are pretty good. 8th index, 1.4 second class lead. Need to back it up tomorrow. Feedback is better still than Yok's, but not spectacular. I am still playing with pressures, with my stretch fit (295 on 12" wheel) I can apparently go much lower than I would have expected.


Sounds like they are working well for your setup so far. Very nice driving/lines on that run, the car looks very composed and visually the turn-in response of the Re71rs looks pretty sharp in the video. Do you feel like that is more attributable to the sidewall/tire construction or the 295 working particularly well on the 12inch rim?

Watching the sweepers, it looks like the new stones have some pretty solid lateral grip and allow you to really carry mid corner speed. Has me wondering if this tire might strike a balance between the attributes of the RT660 and AO52

Thanks for sharing your results thus far, keep us posted about tomorrow and good luck!

-J
 
17
16
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
North Alabama
I love them for their initial bite and autocross manners but use them as a summer daily pad (April-November). They dust much less than other pads I used previously (Powerstop track day/porterfield R4S), but definitely more than stock. I got them from @OPMustang Tim along with titanium shims and Castrol SRF, couldn't be happier. Give him a call and he'll point you in the right direction.

They do squeak intermittently at low speeds on colder days, but I find the tradeoff to be worth it so far.

Hopefully that's somewhat helpful lol,
J
My stock brembo pads dust pretty good up front (granted I have nothing to compare it to lol) but I don't think I'd mind that too much. I'm down in Alabama so maybe I could pull off running them year round. I'll have to give Tim a call, I've been browsing his website for ARP studs, my OEM stuff keeps galling and seizing lug nuts on.
 
Today was even better. It is hard to entirely draw conclusions on the tires, after all, I have a total of 9 runs on them. My biggest initial thought would be that while they are slightly more responsive and have better feel than the Yoks, the biggest difference is being able to drive with a little slip angle and not drive off the tires. On a day like today (about 75-80 during my heat) on the Yoks, I would have to be very careful to not slip the car too much or the tires would lose feel part way through the runs. The RE71rs seemed to take a little slippage better. I could drive them much more like I can drive the car on Hoosiers.


Obviously, I won CAMC, but I also managed to win the whole damn thing.

1670210077372.png

Video

DaveW
 
Today was even better. It is hard to entirely draw conclusions on the tires, after all, I have a total of 9 runs on them. My biggest initial thought would be that while they are slightly more responsive and have better feel than the Yoks, the biggest difference is being able to drive with a little slip angle and not drive off the tires. On a day like today (about 75-80 during my heat) on the Yoks, I would have to be very careful to not slip the car too much or the tires would lose feel part way through the runs. The RE71rs seemed to take a little slippage better. I could drive them much more like I can drive the car on Hoosiers.


Obviously, I won CAMC, but I also managed to win the whole damn thing.

View attachment 81668

Video

DaveW
Congrats! That is no small feat, I don't remember the last time I saw a CAM car take top pax (we live in the hotbed of STR up here)

Your run looked super smooth and the tires look like they've got plenty of stick. Based on the behaviors of your car in the video (differences in setup notwithstanding), I think you helped me make up my mind about tires for next year.

I wonder if 295 stones on an 18x11 will have the same positive characteristics you're getting on the 18x12?

Regardless saving 4lbs of unsprung weight per corner can't hurt as we try to get below the 3400lb mark

Jealous that y'all still have seat time this time of year. I'm in the process of finishing a computer/driving sim build to attempt to keep sharp in the offseason

Thanks for the data and tire inspiration,
-J
 
This event wasn't exactly local, about 720 miles from my door :) Bill and his son Ryan came down, it has to be well over 1000 miles for them. I am not sure if that 44.3 run was my best ever run, but it was my best ever at a big event, and all 6 runs were the best 6 I have ever put together.

My car turns with any tire on it. I don't like pushy cars, so I make it turn. Everyone who drives it, even miata pussies :) say how nimble it is.

I think the 295 RE would be very good on an 11" wheel. I want to try the 315's if/when they become available, that is still relatively narrow for a 12" wheel. In general, everyone I talk to (who seem to know about such things or have tried it) think that the current crop of 200tw tires prefer being stretched rather than pinched on almost all setups.

DaveW
 

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