2012 Boss 302 Build Profile - S197 Mustangs

[Bill Pemberton]

Whoa, I am going to agree with Cory on one item and disagree on another. With all the stuff you are doing you are going to be in CAM C when you autocross, and the tiny tires he mentioned will never work against your competitors. Now get a set of Apex 18x11s , then you have some wide choices in 18s you can use ( even 315s ) , or maybe look into 19x11s. Cory is there for support and honestly similar cost and of course all the Apex rims are hub centric. Biased as Apex is here for the TMO members constantly and I love service during and after the sale ---- Cory runs a Stang!!!

Sorry Cory ,love your rims, but the tiny tires just are no longer the right set up for track or autocross - just ask BS 1!!

 

[KonaBoss]

Whoa, I am going to agree with Cory on one item and disagree on another. With all the stuff you are doing you are going to be in CAM C when you autocross, and the tiny tires he mentioned will never work against your competitors. Now get a set of Apex 18x11s , then you have some wide choices in 18s you can use ( even 315s ) , or maybe look into 19x11s. Cory is there for support and honestly similar cost and of course all the Apex rims are hub centric. Biased as Apex is here for the TMO members constantly and I love service during and after the sale ---- Cory runs a Stang!!!

Sorry Cory ,love your rims, but the tiny tires just are no longer the right set up for track or autocross - just ask BS 1!!

Thanks for the input! My car spends 90% of its time on the street, so I think that a 19x11 setup might be a bit overkill for me. I really dont want to run a 305 up front on the street, especially here in Michigan with the crappy roads and excessive road debris. Now if it was a dedicated autox/track setup, I completely agree with going that route (which makes sense, it is track mustangs online haha). I'm hoping the 19x10's will be the sweet spot, and I'm after forgestar specifically for their bronze burst finish. I do really like the apex wheels as well, and they are definitely a great product! Ideal setup would be a 19x10 Apex EC7 in bronze burst, but unfortunately they dont offer that particular finish.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Next up is a new wheel/tire setup. I'm going to go with Forgestar F14's in 19x10 square fitment, thinking +35mm offset. Does anyone have any experience running a setup like that? Is +35mm too aggressive on the offset? For tires I'll be running 285/35/19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's.

+35 is about right up front for 285/35's even if they're mounted on 11" wide wheels, but +35 is something like 20mm too small for the rear and the rear tires will poke. That'd probably be more of a concern with the rear of your car lowered an inch and a quarter vs mine at around half an inch, and you losing another half inch of vertical sheetmetal clearance to the difference between 19's and 18's.

If you have any thoughts of running this car out on the big tracks or getting a bit more serious about autocross, I'd also recommend going with 11" wide wheels for a couple of reasons. True street tires seem like a little extra wheel width (I've specifically found this with MPSS tires), and having the 'extra' wheel width now leaves you with some room to grow. There's no reason you couldn't just street drive a combination using 11" wide wheels, either (I do, when track days are close together or when I just get lazy . . . actually, that's what's on the car right now).

If you think it's be helpful, I could post a couple of pictures of 18x11's with 285/35-18 MPSS tires, all four corners.


Norm

 

[JDmustang82]

Thanks for the input! My car spends 90% of its time on the street, so I think that a 19x11 setup might be a bit overkill for me. I really dont want to run a 305 up front on the street, especially here in Michigan with the crappy roads and excessive road debris. Now if it was a dedicated autox/track setup, I completely agree with going that route (which makes sense, it is track mustangs online haha). I'm hoping the 19x10's will be the sweet spot, and I'm after forgestar specifically for their bronze burst finish. I do really like the apex wheels as well, and they are definitely a great product! Ideal setup would be a 19x10 Apex EC7 in bronze burst, but unfortunately they dont offer that particular finish.

My car also spends the same amount of time on the street but I chose to run the 19x11 setup with the 305's and being in Northern Michigan the roads are so so. no as bad as the city's but have a lot more uneven road surfaces and I enjoy it very much. but i do pick up a lot of road debris that's for sure.

 

[KonaBoss]

+35 is about right up front for 285/35's even if they're mounted on 11" wide wheels, but +35 is something like 20mm too small for the rear and the rear tires will poke. That'd probably be more of a concern with the rear of your car lowered an inch and a quarter vs mine at around half an inch, and you losing another half inch of vertical sheetmetal clearance to the difference between 19's and 18's.

If you have any thoughts of running this car out on the big tracks or getting a bit more serious about autocross, I'd also recommend going with 11" wide wheels for a couple of reasons. True street tires seem like a little extra wheel width (I've specifically found this with MPSS tires), and having the 'extra' wheel width now leaves you with some room to grow. There's no reason you couldn't just street drive a combination using 11" wide wheels, either (I do, when track days are close together or when I just get lazy . . . actually, that's what's on the car right now).

If you think it's be helpful, I could post a couple of pictures of 18x11's with 285/35-18 MPSS tires, all four corners.


Norm

Hey Norm, thanks for the feedback! I do actually have a few pics of my car with +35 square 19x10's and 285/35/19 on it, and I think you may be right on that being a bit too agressive of an offset for the rear.. Thoughts anyone?





I agree with your point of perhaps running 19x11's with 285's to have room to grow, is there an offset in a 19x11 that I could run and not have to use spacers up front? Post some pics up of your 18's on your car, I'd love to see them!

 

[KonaBoss]

My car also spends the same amount of time on the street but I chose to run the 19x11 setup with the 305's and being in Northern Michigan the roads are so so. no as bad as the city's but have a lot more uneven road surfaces and I enjoy it very much. but i do pick up a lot of road debris that's for sure.

Can you post up some pictures of your car? What offset are your wheels and do you have to run spacers up front?

 

[Ernie Abercrombie]

Hey all,

Have been lurking around this forum for a couple of years now, all I can say is thank you to all the members that post on this forum! I have learned a ton from here, and have (hopefully) applied what I have learned to my build up that I'm about to begin.

As of right now, my boss is mostly stock. Has ARH longtubes with the 3" x pipe with provisions for retaining the side pipes. It also has '10-'12 GT500 axle backs, and the QTP electronic cutouts for the side pipes. I have a tune from Shaun at AED (93 octane), a stainless steel clutch line, and an MGW shifter.

Goals for my build/vehicle usage: I drive this car in the summer on nice days on the street. Here in Michigan (Detroit area), the roads are pretty abysmal, so ride quality is a key factor for me, as well as ride height. I put between 2500 and 5000 miles a summer on it. I also autocross it 1 to 2 times a summer. I do it more for fun and to compete against friends than for FTD or anything along those lines.

So, with those goals in mind, I started accumulating parts to enhance the suspension on my car. I'm content with the ride quality of the factory suspension, but I would like to fix a couple of weak points that I have identified.
A. I'd like to reduce the amount of axle hop the car has on hard acceleration
B. Leveling the ride height front to rear has been on my to-do list for a while. More of an aesthetic thing than anything else
C. I have found that with the stock tires and suspension setup, the car understeers at the limit when autocrossing. I'd like to dial that out and get the car closer to neutral handling characteristics.

Parts acquired to meet my goals:
1. Ford Performance M-5300-T boss 302 specific lowering springs - These seemed to be the best balance of ride and lowering height from what I have seen to fit my goals. I will be re-using the factory boss 302 struts.
2. Ford performance M-5570-A bump stop kit - I got this kit since the used T springs I bought didnt come with them. As far as I can tell, this is what should have come with that spring kit from the factory.
3. Whiteline KTA195 adjustable rear lower control arms with MAX-C bushings - I bought these in hopes that they strike a good balance between NVH and helping to reduce the axle hop under acceleration. Since they are an elastomer bushing, I don't think they will clunk and squeak like spherical bearings do. Also, they are adjustable so they should allow me to dial pinion and driveshaft angle back in once I re-assemble everything.
4. Maximum Motorsports Mm5RLCA-57 lower control arm relocation brackets - should help me ensure that the lower control arm angle is correct once I lower the car. I chose these over the whiteline ones due to the better design/increase adjusability. Hopefully they play nice with the whiteline LCA's...
5. Maximum Motorsports Mm5PBAR-3 adjustable panhard bar - this has spherical bearings on it, I'm hoping I dont run into too much clunk/squeak behavior since it will only be (theoretically) traveling in one plane of motion.
6. Maximum Motorsports Mm5CC-6 caster camber plates - to help dial in the front caster and camber alignment
7. Vorshlag S197 Stainless steel brake lines and motul RBF-600 fluid - I'd like to get a bit better brake feel as well while I'm at it.

So, with those items in mind I'm hoping to achieve my goals outlined above. I'll be digging in over the next couple of weeks, so I'll keep everyone updated. If anyone has comments/concerns/hints/tips to share, please feel free! I'm going to start with the following steps:
Step 1: Measure pinion and driveshaft angle before tearing everything apart
Step 2: Measure axle location side-to-side before beginning
Step 3: Measure stock ride height for a comparison to once I am done

Last note: The plan is to move to a 19x10 square wheel setup with 285/35/19 PS4S (or equivalent) tires once I am finished with the suspension work. This should further help dial out the oversteer from the factory setup.

So if you look at a Kenny Brown Performance package, you will like it more than separate part pieces.

Kenny Brown Performance Handling Cars

Our passion is building and driving well-balanced, exhilarating, fun-to-drive high-performance sports cars, track cars, and race cars. Our focus is delivering you a very personalized and unparalleled driving and customer experience by making your car dreams and driving ambitions a reality.

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[Norm Peterson]

Can you post up some pictures of your car? What offset are your wheels and do you have to run spacers up front?

OK. The first picture is with the car lowered about 1/2" up front and about 5/8" out back. The other pictures were taken with the car still on its OE springs. I didn't like the rear dropping 1-1/8" for either appearance or rear suspension geometry reasons, so I'd shimmed the rear up about 1/2". I've since raised the rear back up another 3/8" but don't have any pictures of that yet. Won't for a while either; weather, COVID, and a few other things have gotten in the way of finishing up a Torsen and re-gearing project.




Here's the rear, offset +55-ish.




Front, offset about midway between +35 and +40. Yes, I DD with the cambers that far negative.



It is a bit tight on the inside, and this seems to vary a bit depending on actual wheel outside width, actual tire dimensions, actual strut body diameter, and even from the OE hubs to the FRPP hubs that I replaced them with. Originally, I needed to make up an 0.025" spacer for the passenger side to clear a very light rub in right turns with 2 passengers aboard. With the FRPP hubs I put 3mm (1/8") spacers on both fronts.

This actually did not rub even as shown below at 1+ lat-g on the track, and it doesn't tramline in street driving. Clearance is a little better than this now, but if I go any wider with the tires (actual width, not just nominal size) I'm going to need a little more than 3mm spacers.







Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

is there an offset in a 19x11 that I could run and not have to use spacers up front?

There is no single offset that will work on both ends of the car once the wheel width exceeds about 10". +45 works with the 9.5" wide GT500 wheels, and I *think* +42 with 10" works all around in 18" (in 19" you'd gain a little wheel to strut clearance and tire rub strip to strut clearance due to the strut's front view inclination but hardly anything at max tire section). IIRC, 10.5" at +38 works up front but pokes out back.

There is one possible exception, that being with the Cortex struts, which were specifically designed to provide a little more inside clearance.


Norm

 

[Champale]

FYI I have run 20x10.5 ET45 at all 4 corners with 285/35/20 PSS tires and about 1.8 degree camber up front with zero issues. Lowered about an inch all around. Only thing I did was add a 3mm spacer up front to clear the Brembos but basically a rotatable 10.5 setup can be run at all 4 corners with the right wheels. And I'm pretty certain that some 295/30 or even 305/30 would have worked (not the fat PSS though). In a 19" it would be easier because of the shorter tires.

 

[JDmustang82]

Can you post up some pictures of your car? What offset are your wheels and do you have to run spacers up front?

my wheels are XXR 530’s 19x10.75 with +15 offset and a 12mm spacer up front with -2 degrees of camber

 

[KonaBoss]

Thanks to everyone for the input and pictures! Looks like I have some thinking to do...

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Well don't make a decision yet, as Tymeslayer and TMS have not put in their input and I am sure they will want to chime in as well as ask you to join the Blue Brotherhood?! You see, they both have the twin to your car and each of them have made plenty of changes , along with both buying a ton of rims and tires. Once they find out you have a KonaBoss, you will have two more very solid TMO friends, ha!!

There are a lot of Bluebloods on this site!!

 

[KonaBoss]

Well don't make a decision yet, as Tymeslayer and TMS have not put in their input and I am sure they will want to chime in as well as ask you to join the Blue Brotherhood?! You see, they both have the twin to your car and each of them have made plenty of changes , along with both buying a ton of rims and tires. Once they find out you have a KonaBoss, you will have two more very solid TMO friends, ha!!

There are a lot of Bluebloods on this site!!

Noted! I'll keep an eye out for their input. I probably wont be buying anything until the end of May anyways, make sure this covid crap calms down a bit...

 

[TymeSlayer]

I run my 19x11 Apex (Set of EC-7 and SM-10s) ET-52 with a OP 25mm front spacer. Car is lowered on "T" springs and I run with 305/30/19 RE71-r and Michelin PS4S. The front stuck out a bit until I maxed out the camber to -2.6. Now they sit pretty.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I went through the 275, 285 phase. Plenty of room front and rear.

With 305s you have room, safe room on the Boss. The spacer, 25mm makes life easy. Assuming you remember to put the spacer in before bolting on the wheels.....don't ask. LOL.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I knew the Blue Boyzzz would be on here soon, and you can trust them to steer you in the right direction - most of the time, ha.

 

[KonaBoss]

Man, you guys are making a strong arguement for the apex 19x11's... Starting to sway my decision towards those...

 

[TMSBOSS]

I use the 18's.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Like Mr. TMS , using the 18s and that gets you more tire selection ( less money spent per tire in almost every case ).