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2012 Boss 302 Grille Options

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cloud9 said:
The temp drops by removing the grille are consistent regardless of whether it's measuring CHT or true ECT. A friend of mine who also has the Aeroforce gauge, installed a water temp gauge in the heater block port so you should be able to use that. He found ECT tracked very close to CHT with those gauges. He also had a consistent drop from the mid 240sF down to the 220s with the Roush billet grille under track conditions.
That's good to know the two are very close.
 
335
1
This is what I know. The people who are having issues with temps are generally at higher elevations.

From personal experience I have gone into limp mode due to overheating only twice. And they were blistering hot days in Savannah, GA. Car was completely stock except for brakes. I did one cool down lap and temps dropped dramatically. I started shifting about 750 rpm sooner and no temp issues on those days. I think the motors really heat up with high rpm constant use.

It has been proven that removing the grill takes care of all overheating issues. I for one think this is ridiculous. Rule number 1........always look good! So we definitely have to get more cool air in. I believe the grill mods will make a difference. By themselves they may not be the answer, but they should help.

Has anyone ever opened their hood even after just driving the car on an errand (and doing so normally)? The heat that comes off of the engine when you open the hood could singe your nose hairs. It is HOT!!!!! So it stands to reason that getting that hot air out is just as important. For those that have had the car at higher speeds you should have noticed your hood shaking quite a bit from all the air being trapped under there. It doesn't seem to have anywhere to go very easily. Put that 302s hood on there and the heat will have more than enough places to escape.

I am with Scott on removing the foam pieces around the intake. Specifically the ones in front and black (not sure if that is foam). The two pieces essentially block the space between where the intake runners stop and end. To me it seems all that heat can get trapped in there heating up the air going into the motor and the cylinder heads.

I am waiting for an air to oil oil cooler to come to the market just because that is what I prefer but I am not sure how much this is adding to the issue of overheating. However if the motor is right on the edge of running to hot it makes sense that the oil is damn hot as well since it is cooled off by the coolant. But a little radiator for the oil is more than likely going to slow air down to the radiator for the coolant..... Again as soon as a proven quality system shows up I am all over it. To hot of oil is not good at all.....

Bottom line is either get a lot more cool air in or a little cool air in and a little hot air out and we shouldn't have any issues.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
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Adam
BMW put the air to air oilcooler on my 335i in front of the wheel well on the passenger side iirc.Maybe we can do something similar. The area occupied by the lifetime washer fill might accomodate a mishimoto matrix and a thermostatic sandwich plate could be mounted between the filter and stock oil cooler and use Aeroquip hoses to run across. Modify the fog light blank to accept a second hose for the oil cooler and brake duct. Cut slots in the front wheel housing sheild and epoxy wire screen on it to allow heat to escape. This area I am willing to modify as it is not as highly visible and parts to play with are cheap. Hell Boss 302 S grille and emblem are 385 bucks. Anybody on here good with fiberglass molding? (908sp, nota4re?)
Steve
 
steveespo said:
Adam
BMW put the air to air oilcooler on my 335i in front of the wheel well on the passenger side iirc.Maybe we can do something similar. The area occupied by the lifetime washer fill might accomodate a mishimoto matrix and a thermostatic sandwich plate could be mounted between the filter and stock oil cooler and use Aeroquip hoses to run across. Modify the fog light blank to accept a second hose for the oil cooler and brake duct. Cut slots in the front wheel housing sheild and epoxy wire screen on it to allow heat to escape. This area I am willing to modify as it is not as highly visible and parts to play with are cheap. Hell Boss 302 S grille and emblem are 385 bucks. Anybody on here good with fiberglass molding? (908sp, nota4re?)
Steve
Did you see this from my first post?

http://www.trucarbon.net/Trucarbon_Mustang_Carbon_Fiber_Front_Bumper_Grill_p/tc10025-lg87.htm
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
steveespo said:
(The Roush guys do run their grille on the Grand Am car though right?)

Steve - remember that Grand-Am has no A/C or Condenser in front of the radiator. This leads to more airflow to the radiator.

After all I did last year, I'm convinced it is airflow. I've used the 302s grill, I've added the 302R radiator and finally built the 'chicken-wire' solution which I ran at Hastings. With the chicken-wire grill (cheapest GT surround + chicken wire from Home Depot) the car NEVER got close to hot. I'm getting the 302S hood (should ship Tuesday) and that, combined with the 302S grill and my radiator should resolve all issues with coolant temps.

I still want to see what oil-temps are as we have no way of reading those OEM. My blackstone labs came back really clean (typical break-in findings), so it didn't appear that the oil was breaking down. I'm still thinking an air-to-oil cooler would be a safer bet.
 
Thanks for the testing info from Blackstone. I have been probably overaggressive changing mine and visually has always looked really clean despite he thrashing I've given it.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
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Same here with the oil, it always still looks a little golden when I drained it after 24 track days and I say what a waste of 65 bucks. I would kick myself if I ran it longer and something happened to the engine. Also in 16000 miles I've done 3 trans fluid changes and 3 rear axle lube changes. Sick puppy I know.
Steve
 
I agree on preferring the Boss grille "look" which is why I kept the 302S grille and added the Tiger Hood to hopefully solve the problem.
[/quote]

CLOUD9...... Dont get it,..... so you are buying the hood then?....So why are you saying it might not be the solution to me when your spending hard earned cash on it?
 
cf6mech said:
I agree on preferring the Boss grille "look" which is why I kept the 302S grille and added the Tiger Hood to hopefully solve the problem.

CLOUD9...... Dont get it,..... so you are buying the hood then?....So why are you saying it might not be the solution to me when your spending hard earned cash on it?
[/quote]
The hood is installed. I bought it for three reasons, in this order. Downforce, cooling and looks. I expect a cooling benefit from the hood, and I expect it to be the last thing I need to do for cooling. I won't know for sure until this spring when I get back on the track. I am not disputing the fact that the hood will improve cooling, I am simply pointing out that we KNOW that removing the grille or changing to a billet or mesh grille will solve the cooling issue without the Tiger hood. Guys have done it and it works period. Personally I prefer running with a grille, and specifically a Boss grille. That's why I spent my hard earned money on the Tiger hood to complement the 302S grille and radiator that I already have installed. For someone who doesn't want to spend money on all of those things, they can get by with the correct grille for cooling.
 
I run at sea level. Just starting out this year I had no cooling problems with my first runs. After I came back from Miller armed with better skills I started to see the temps steadily rise. When I was running in the 240's I knew something had to be done. For now I am good with my changes, if that changes I will go with the oil cooler next.

I think the two biggest problems are the air flow and oil cooler, they are the biggest things that effect the internal temps. Other things like the vented hood and foam removal do not address the temps in the core of the engine. I am sure they help to some degree but by themselves they would not help much. Only with getting more air flow and the oil cooler out of the system will they have any effect.

Like Gary said it has a lot to do with the driver, I do not run 100% all the time and don't plan to at this time. I tend to lift for a second or two before braking points and I am sure that helps, plus I do not have the skills yet to be exiting at full throttle most of the time. Given all this I doubt the hood would help me, I do not see it venting any more air then the rear weather strip. I am not saying it does not work at all with cooling but I don't see it bring down temps like the grille mod does. I do think however that doing all of these things combined and working together will make a big difference.
 
Here's an idea.

I have the ability to record the data (ECT and CHT) and post it in a video. So, if I can figure out a way to cover the vents in my hood without melting whatever I cover it with, I can post a comparison.

Any ideas?
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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Go from the outside and just make cardboard cutouts. Air pressure will hold them like glue and tempswill be the same as the outside air -with the wind chill! ;-)
 

PeteInCT

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Retract! You said hood. Too fast on the keyboard trigger here ;-) how about high temp metal foil tape? I use it on my wheels to help hold the weights in place and it survives well. Good for 300 degrees if I remember correctly....
 
smittytx said:
Here's an idea.

I have the ability to record the data (ECT and CHT) and post it in a video. So, if I can figure out a way to cover the vents in my hood without melting whatever I cover it with, I can post a comparison.

Any ideas?
Kendall said they have been using RoadWrap when running through the car wash. I assume that would work just as well for your experiment. It sounds like it's available from auto retailers locally as well.

http://www.buyroadwrap.com/
 

PeteInCT

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Are you concerned about the paint on the inside of the hood ? All I can say is I've used it on blisteringly hot painted wheels and the paint was left untouched. If using the clear wrap from the outside, I'd be concerned about the areas above the vents where the wrap would be directly exposed to engine heat. Would it warp/melt ?
 
PeteInCT said:
Are you concerned about the paint on the inside of the hood ? All I can say is I've used it on blisteringly hot painted wheels and the paint was left untouched. If using the clear wrap from the outside, I'd be concerned about the areas above the vents where the wrap would be directly exposed to engine heat. Would it warp/melt ?
Well since I just had mine painted, yes ;D but normally no. Yea should be fine, I just envisioned duct tape and all the glue it leaves behind. No idea on the temp rating of road wrap, just seemed like it would be easy to put on and take off. Since it's basically a clear bra, it's going to get hot just being on an aluminum hood cooking in the sun and getting radiant heat from the engine, so I'd say it should be fine.

Either way thanks for testing smitty! :D
 

PeteInCT

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I understand. The adhesive used on the metal foil (at least the Berry Plastics/Nashua brand) is unlike normal duct tape. It's a clear thin plastic that can leave a residue but cleans up with Bug and Tar remover easily. But your right, either way shoul dwork and the fact that Smitty is willing to do this is GREAT. Thanks Smitty !
 

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