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S197 2014 Mustang GT Track Pack Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

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179
309
Utah
Cortex offers both 850# and 1000# setups. I know some very fast cars with both. I’m at 1000# and the car feels very soft to me but the front end has always been so good I have resisted springing it up. So I am considering a few different routes. The new cambered rear end threw a wild card into the setup and I have to re evaluate how best to handle the new developments. (Pun intended)
Over the winter, in addition to straightening the rear axle as previously discussed, I am working on the 850# setup to try to get more mechanical grip into the car using the Toyo RR. Should have a chance to drive it about March 1. After I get some aero, I will likely step back up to the stiffer rates.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
I would fiddle with tire pressures a bit more before I started switching all kinds of spring rates. I found on mine , at Topeka, because the track is so smooth, that I could drop the pressure 2-3 pounds ( cold ) from what I was instructed by a couple of friends with similar set-ups. Track surfaces, temperature, air pressure, car weight, etc. can all have an effect on how a tire works and it is not always dramatic changes in the suspension that is needed. Work with those concepts first to get a feel of the Toyos, imho. Then chat more with Fabman , he is relatively close and you may even meet each other at an event. I am running a dual remote MCS shock/suspension set up and the springs rates that seem optimal from MCS, Vorshlag and my old Motorsports director are somewhat softer. Fabman is a Guru on your set up , so his words will be key to your eventual set up, just drive the machine more and get a feel for it first, imho.


The Toyos right now are priced well, they wear like iron, I am just voicing my opinion that I prefer the Hoosiers for W2W.
 
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28
98
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Salt Lake City, UT
I would fiddle with tire pressures a bit more before I started switching all kinds of spring rates. I found on mine , at Topeka, because the track is so smooth, that I could drop the pressure 2-3 pounds ( cold ) from what I was instructed by a couple of friends with similar set-ups. Track surfaces, temperature, air pressure, car weight, etc. can all have an effect on how a tire works and it is not always dramatic changes in the suspension that is needed. Work with those concepts first to get a feel of the Toyos, imho. Then chat more with Fabman , he is relatively close and you may even meet each other at an event. I am running a dual remote MCS shock/suspension set up and the springs rates that seem optimal from MCS, Vorshlag and my old Motorsports director are somewhat softer. Fabman is a Guru on your set up , so his words will be key to your eventual set up, just drive the machine more and get a feel for it first, imho.


The Toyos right now are priced well, they wear like iron, I am just voicing my opinion that I prefer the Hoosiers for W2W.
Bill,
I think Rod's decision on Toyo RR's has somewhat to do with the new NASA rules that give the Toyo a 1.6 lb/HP advantage over the Hoosiers. The Hoosier's are definitely faster but from NASA's previous 0.6 lb/HP advantage for Toyo's to 1.6 lb/HP probably gives the Toyo an advantage in class. I will probably switch from Hoosiers to Toyo's in my NASA races because of this major advantage. Will do some testing between the two in March to make a final decision. J.R.
 
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Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
That will make a huge difference, because I was thinking it was still set at .The new rules ( 1.6 HP advantage to Toyo Tires ) will give many drivers a possibility to have more Class options , etc. Heck, add a little weight and drop a small amount of HP and the Boss S could be in ST3----Wow!

That is what I love about this Forum, since things are constantly changing in the racing/time trial/autocross World there is a good chance someone will pop up the new info for all to see. I definitely missed this so thanks consult.
 
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179
309
Utah
JR is correct in that my choice of tire is because of the NASA rules. Conveniently the Toyo costs less than others. Last year I started the year off in TT3 in my 3V car which classed at the bottom of TT3. The new car came in about 20 HP higher than I anticipated (80 more than the 3V) and at the same weight I needed the Toyo RR +.6 and the BTM Aero +.4 to remain in class.

In 2022 my choice is to go with one of the +1 tires in the list and remain at the current weight with aero, or run the Toyo RR from the +1.6 list, loose weight (up to 150 lbs) and run aero. As mentioned the Toyo RR is cost effective compared to the other tires in the list. I always hedge a bit to say it is "better" than the other tires (Hoosier isn't in the list) because frankly I am not quite fast enough to be able to confidently voice that opinion. Everything works well when I am slower! No doubt however that the Hoosier is just the best DOT tire. JR is fast enough that I will be asking how the tire test went and see if in his opinion the Toyo RR is worth the +1.6.

I do look forward to the day that my car is setup well, I am faster as a driver, and the Toyo RR is holding me back. Then I may have a decision to make.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Heh, I will admit to not noticing that rule change and that is huge. I already figured and I could stay in my Class, but with just a very few changes ( and I have all the parts ) I am right in ST3 -------thanks guys!! Will admit the cost of racing will be much less as the Toyos are two fold -- less money and last longer.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
FWIW, I would seek help from someone familiar with your Penskes FIRST. CorteX directly or somebody who is running the same ones.
You made a good buy, IMO, with this setup…just gotta work those knobs that you paid for.
Your suspension overall has a lot of adjustments to consider and dial in. But those dampers and how you set them will be key in extracting the maximum grip for whatever you do geometry or rate wise.
I’ve said many times before that people underestimate the value of spending for good dampers. Learning to tune them is also required.
 
179
309
Utah
FWIW, I would seek help from someone familiar with your Penskes FIRST. CorteX directly or somebody who is running the same ones.
You made a good buy, IMO, with this setup…just gotta work those knobs that you paid for.
Your suspension overall has a lot of adjustments to consider and dial in. But those dampers and how you set them will be key in extracting the maximum grip for whatever you do geometry or rate wise.
I’ve said many times before that people underestimate the value of spending for good dampers. Learning to tune them is also required.
I am a believer for sure and think you are absolutely right. I have been working the car as I will document in this thread. If it has taught me one thing so far it is that with so much adjustment, I have to take it slow, one thing at a time and get advice along the way. I am excited for the potential that is in this car, it just is going to take a while to get it right, not to mention improve as a driver to meet the capabilities of the car. Good thing is I have time and really enjoy the setup part of it so even though I make mistakes in setup, I am learning from them.

Cortex has given me some basic setup info, but since I bought it second hand, they are understandably a little tight lipped. I just sent the fronts in for a rebuild (leaky seals, an affect of sitting for three years) to Performance Shock at Sonoma and they are going to give me some basic settings when they are done rebuilding the dampers. Then I have Fabman and Don running the same setup that have been very helpful as well. Just trying not to wear them out with questions!
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
986
1,277
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
Is PSI going to revalve, or just rebuild/refresh with the same valving? Assuming (and what happens when we do that?) that the original buyer bought the springs and shocks as a package, the shocks should be valved pretty well for the springs. If the shocks were valved to the springs, I'd start the shock adjustments in the middle of the range and adjust from there. Starting full soft and stiffening a couple clicks each time as you do test laps really takes a while if you're going to do it right.

Ask PSI to identify the piston type used in each shock, as that partly determines what damping speed range your adjustments affect. See page 17 in the 8760 manual. Hopefully PSI will do an adjuster sweep of each shock on the dyno when they're done and give you the data. The manuals and other tech articles on Penske's site have a wealth of info.
 
179
309
Utah
Is PSI going to revalve, or just rebuild/refresh with the same valving? Assuming (and what happens when we do that?) that the original buyer bought the springs and shocks as a package, the shocks should be valved pretty well for the springs. If the shocks were valved to the springs, I'd start the shock adjustments in the middle of the range and adjust from there. Starting full soft and stiffening a couple clicks each time as you do test laps really takes a while if you're going to do it right.

Ask PSI to identify the piston type used in each shock, as that partly determines what damping speed range your adjustments affect. See page 17 in the 8760 manual. Hopefully PSI will do an adjuster sweep of each shock on the dyno when they're done and give you the data. The manuals and other tech articles on Penske's site have a wealth of info.
Great advise. PSI is going to call and let me know general condition and cost. My intent was to just to a refresh and rebuild, but I will inquire about the valving and if I can get a dyno chart. I did send in my intended spring rates with the work order, but I will be sure and address the spring rates directly. Thanks!
 
179
309
Utah
Second track weekend (July 30-Aug1 2021) was the NASA Utah vent at UMC running the outer loop. The outer loop is a horsepower layout, with only a few slower turns. It was important to try and settle the car down for the higher speeds I would experience over the West course the month before.

I probably worked two to three hours per night (not to mention weekends…) on progressing the car (better seat, finish the dash, hood vents) but on setup. It wasn’t that the setup is that hard, it is me learning how to do the setup, what adjustments affect what setup and the order in which to accomplish the task.

First a few problems I ran into the previous track day and the solutions. In one session, the car had a hesitation in the throttle that was not consistent, but was quite evident, like 3-5 seconds in duration. Happened twice that day. When I got the car he and was going through checking everything, I noticed that the intake tube was not secure on the throttle body. This was something I had purposely removed during maintenance and attached again, so I knew it was secure previously. This is the case of a street/strip part not proving to be ready for the road course. It had an Airaid plastic intake tube, which I promptly switched out for the AEM aluminum intake tube. Problem solved.

Ran into some clutch issues as the day progressed and it felt like I was loosing hydraulic pressure. In the last session, I pulled off as the shifting had become notchy and pedal engagement was low in the stroke. We had our enduro from 6:00 pm to midnight and I work the pits so the car sat for more than 6 hours. After the enduro, the pedal went to the floor, no clutch disengagement! So I started the car in gear, shifted the old fashioned way to get home, luckily only having to come to a stop once (1:00am in Utah tends to be pretty light on traffic).

Mods between track days:
AEM intake tube (Airraid tube popping off)
Ford Performance One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft
BMR rear adjustable upper control arm
Intake Heat Barrier
Center Trackspec hood vent
Sparco Drivers Seat
Center Console (cupholders required… you try drinking a slushy on the way home from the track.)

Here is were I was on setup this time:
Front:
1000lb spring
35mm bar - 2nd from full stiff
Camber: -2.0
Caster: 6.9
LS Comp: 14/22 +2
HS Comp: 6/14 +1
Rebound: 15/44

Rear:
300lb spring
Watson 1/2” bar
LS Comp: 10/22
HS Comp: 4/14
Rebound: 16/44 +4

I worked with the damping during the day. The car was much more settled than the month before, and at the 130+ speeds on the main straight felt much more stable. It still has some “waggle” under hard braking, thus my adjustments on increasing front LS Comp and rear Rebound, but at least it is feeling more balanced, although a bit unforgiving. I will likely run these rates again and continue to work on the car setup. I have to remember that I need to learn how to drive a race car, not a street car that works well on the track. I have been reading about triple adjustable dampers and have received some great advise from members on TMO. So much to learn and a long way to go!

The outer loop is 3 miles, 15 turns. I the morning I did a personal best, lowering my time by 5 seconds to a 2:13.352 over my 3V car. Needless to say I was very happy with that result. Data showed great progress on the first 6 turns and a little progress on the back side of the track. Always more work to do on the driver!

IMG_6213.jpeg
IMG_6214.jpegIMG_6290.jpeg
 
179
309
Utah
Haven’t posted for a while. I drove the car the rest of 2021, improving each weekend, making adjustments and learning the car.

For the Winter 2021-2022 my plans included the following:

• Soften things up for more mechanical grip
• Gear change from 3.73 to 3.55
• 4” Brake Ducts
• Dial in the bump steer.
• Box in the radiator and oil cooler
• Cortex Torque Arm - (The car is a Cortex catalog, so why not?)
• Custom exhaust (apologies to those that actually can make an exhaust system and those that can actually weld)

Another goal was to keep improving the suspension. My thoughts there are to go softer on the spring rates to get more mechanical grip out of the car. Being that aero is not in the budget yet I want to get the car as grippy as I can without aero, then work my way into the aero, always having the option of going back to my stiffer setups. Taking some cues from others on TMO and setup advice from Cortex:

• Front springs from 1000lb to 850 lb.
• Rear springs from 300lb to 250 lb.

Why 3:55?

On the gear change, the car is a Track Pack car which comes with the 3.73 gears, but I am running 18” wheels, which lowers the gearing from the stock 19” wheels. On track I was working a lot between 4th and 5th which stinks and became very prone to miss shifts. Plus, taking slower corners in 3rd meant a shift during track out, which was dicy at best, then also running out of 4th gear on the short straights, and having to use 6th (like a parachute) on the UMC 2/3 mile front straight.

My calculations put me in a 3.55, which would carry 3rd through the slower corners until half way down the straights, allow me to carry 4th to the ends of the short straights and stay in 5th down the long front straight. It changed the car. Yes I am shifting more than before but it shaved off seconds and kept the engine in the RPM range that is spot on for UMC.


4” brake ducts
I had 4” brake ducts on my 3V car as it had an FR500S front facia with the duct intakes. So I had made some backing plates (oval pointed at the hub). I wanted to get these on my 2014 car, but sourcing the intakes off of a BOSS 302S is next to impossible. So the next best thing is to make them. Luckily, my brother is an amazing upholstery trimmer and also does fantastic carbon and fiberglass work, as well as 3D printing of custom elements. I sent him the 3” ducts I had made fit and gave him some dimensions. Each duct took about 48 hours to print. Because we live quite a distance from each other, I had to do some fab work to get them to fit and clearance the hoses, but man they work great! Next (probably winter of 2023-2024 we will work on laying them up in carbon.

3D Model of Brake Intakes.png
3D model of the brake duct

Brake intake mounted.jpeg
Finished printed brake duct installed.

Bump Steer the right way.

Following @Fabman you may know that there are two ways of setting up your bump steer. His way and the wrong way. So I took my time over the winter to get it totally dialed in. Made a big difference in handling and between the 4 wheel string alignment and the bump steer, it solved my waggle under braking problem. Also general handling and tire wear is improved.

Box in the radiator
Purchased the Watson Engineering side plates and fabricated additional panels to box in the oil cooler and radiator. Doesn’t do justice to some of the installs I have seen on TMO, but does the trick. Saw reduced temps at the track, especially on those really hot days.

Radiator Boxing.jpeg

Cortex Torque Arm
I decided to put a Torque Arm on the car. I have to say it was one of the best mods as far as creating a car that is really predictable and feels much more tied together. Even with all the awesome gear on this car, the Torque Arm seemed to bring it all together.

Custom exhaust.
Wanting to drop weight and owning a welder (I know, owning a welder isn’t a good reason to weld…) I figured I would buy some 3” tubing and go for it.

Removed all of the axle back and did a pre-axle turn down. Saved about 25 lbs of weight and made the car really loud, so I added some additional mufflers and more glass packs. Now the car is just right sound wise (no excessive rasp through the 2500 to 4000 RPM range and puts out a deep tone. Of course everyone likes the louder Mustangs, but I am an old man and wanted to quiet it down just a bit. I have to wear ear plugs in the car anyway because of the NVH, I don’t need to add the exhaust to it.

Exhaust Prep Heat Management.jpeg

Heat shielding while the rear axle and driveshaft were out prior to the new exhaust.

Final Exhaust Mounted.jpeg

Latest iteration of the exhaust. Not too loud, but you know when the go pedal is used...

Those are the changes for Winter 2021-2022. I will write up a few more changes during the 2022 season as they came on.

Thanks for reading.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,519
8,155
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Bump Steer the right way.

Following @Fabman you may know that there are two ways of setting up your bump steer.
His way and the wrong way.

So I took my time over the winter to get it totally dialed in. Made a big difference in handling and between the 4 wheel string alignment and the bump steer, it solved my waggle under braking problem. Also general handling and tire wear is improved.
That's hilarious....but it worked, didn't it! LOL.
And the brake ducts look great!
 
30
31
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Logan, UT
Reading through your build thread, I now understand why you asked what my rear end is geared to. Being entry level, I didn't really want to shift to fifth on the back straight just to downshift back a few seconds later. Maybe I should look into taller rear gearing if I am going to be running NASA more in the future.
 
179
309
Utah
Reading through your build thread, I now understand why you asked what my rear end is geared to. Being entry level, I didn't really want to shift to fifth on the back straight just to downshift back a few seconds later. Maybe I should look into taller rear gearing if I am going to be running NASA more in the future.
It all depends on your tire size as well. Guys that are running the 19" wheels are using the 3.73 very effectively. With the 18" wheels (presuming a 315/30-18 tire or similar with a diameter of about 25.5 inches) the 3.55 is much better. It allows me to come out of most slower corners in 3rd and get great pull and shift to 4th on the straights.

I shift to 5th just after T4 on the west, reaching about 120 on the back straight. I do downshift from 5th, 4th to 3rd in the transition to T5.

Based on the math I did for 3.73, 3.55 and 3.31 you likely don't want to go taller than 3.55. What ratio is in the car currently? Unless it has been changed you can look at the axle code on the drivers door VIN sticker.
 
30
31
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Logan, UT
It all depends on your tire size as well. Guys that are running the 19" wheels are using the 3.73 very effectively. With the 18" wheels (presuming a 315/30-18 tire or similar with a diameter of about 25.5 inches) the 3.55 is much better. It allows me to come out of most slower corners in 3rd and get great pull and shift to 4th on the straights.

I shift to 5th just after T4 on the west, reaching about 120 on the back straight. I do downshift from 5th, 4th to 3rd in the transition to T5.

Based on the math I did for 3.73, 3.55 and 3.31 you likely don't want to go taller than 3.55. What ratio is in the car currently? Unless it has been changed you can look at the axle code on the drivers door VIN sticker.
You were my HPDE 1 instructor a week ago. I have 3.73 gearing in my track pack car, with your old forgestar 18x11 wheels and 315/30r18 tires. I can see how 3.55 rear gearing would be beneficial for west course. I’ll be back out for the June event, and I’ve been studying s studying studying west course. I should be much better.
 
179
309
Utah
You were my HPDE 1 instructor a week ago. I have 3.73 gearing in my track pack car, with your old forgestar 18x11 wheels and 315/30r18 tires. I can see how 3.55 rear gearing would be beneficial for west course. I’ll be back out for the June event, and I’ve been studying s studying studying west course. I should be much better.
Jared, I apologize that it sounded like I didn't know who you are. I totally do and had a great time with you at the May event. Look forward to having you there again. I just couldn't remember if your car was a track pack car.
 
30
31
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Logan, UT
Jared, I apologize that it sounded like I didn't know who you are. I totally do and had a great time with you at the May event. Look forward to having you there again. I just couldn't remember if your car was a track pack car.
I totally understand. I got a new tune, higher redline, and my autoblip rewired so I look forward to next month!
 
9
11
Exp. Type
Drag Strip
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Florida / Massachusetts
It’s one thing to make a mistake on track, it’s another to have everyone that has a camera somehow looking at you when you do it! The spin was on the back straight, West side of Utah Motorsports Campus, going into Black Rock Hairpin, so it is like 110 mph to about 55 mph. I was chasing down a friend in the blue Mustang ahead. He is usually much faster than me, but was on street tires at the time. I was braking in a straight line, and from the video it looks like the left rear locked. As far as the mistake I made, I think I left on too much brake pressure as the car slowed, trying to brake late and make up time.

The car spun right toward the outside wall, I corrected and it spun back to the left. I went two feet in and the car did a very nice 360, straight out into the runoff, but did go 4 wheels off. But I didn’t collect my friend’s car or hit a wall.

Here is the video and a few pictures from the track photo guy. I do remember distinctly out of the corner of my eye, the flagger ducking for cover and the photo guy standing firm, getting the picture. The spin is at the end of the video with I think three different angles.
That is some awesome footage! Thankfully no one got hurt and no one's car got banged up. Your response seemed pretty calm and professional!
 

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