mattlqx
Mustangless
It's nice to see Camissa back to doing Motortrend style videos again in any case.
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2020 GT500 VS Porsche 991.2 GT3 RS
- Thread starterVoodooBoss
- Start date
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Lol. Well played.
Porsche is the Gold standard. To get those times with the 500 it was like wrestling with a bull , their comments not mine but I can just imagine. The 500 is big and HEAVY. Weight no bueno. Creates wear on brakes/pads and munches tires.
The Porsche will turn the same times without drama and easier on the driver. The Porsche will consistently deliver the same times lap after lap and for longer without new pads and tires. Rinse, wash, repeat.
To me this test underscores the fact that the RS is still the Gold standard when you realize it’s still faster and does it with only 520 hp and 346 lbs/tq with a na 6 cylinder.
Yes it costs more but the build quality is another level.
Withthe 25k to 50k adms the 500 is not worth it. In 2 years there will be over 10,000 of them . Without adms it’s an awesome bargain.
Here is some comparison data:
The Porsche will turn the same times without drama and easier on the driver. The Porsche will consistently deliver the same times lap after lap and for longer without new pads and tires. Rinse, wash, repeat.
To me this test underscores the fact that the RS is still the Gold standard when you realize it’s still faster and does it with only 520 hp and 346 lbs/tq with a na 6 cylinder.
Yes it costs more but the build quality is another level.
Withthe 25k to 50k adms the 500 is not worth it. In 2 years there will be over 10,000 of them . Without adms it’s an awesome bargain.
Here is some comparison data:
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- Thread starter
- #25
FWIW at the Mustang Roundup we were told by one of the Ford engineers that he's within a second a lap at VIR in the GT500 CFTP compared to the new Ford GT.
imho new FGT was over hyped and over priced. Won LeMans only once... in 2016 after getting a huge pass on homlogation rules, bop favors and racing against outdated competition. Ford and Organizers stacked the deck. Commercial $ with the 50 year return stuff was too much to pass up. It was beat at LeMans every year thereafter by Corvette, Porsche and Ferrari.
These new GT500 performance stats make the new FGT even less relevant. There have been a number of cars with equal if not better performance than the new FGT since 2017 including the GT3RS, 488, Huracan, ZR1, GT2RS, MAC 720, Mac 600 LT and for less $ and now you can apparently add the new Shelby GT500 to the list.
Here is the GT3RS comparison (and keep in mind the RS/GT500 times at Chuckwalla):
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Yeah but the faster time was apparently with a prepared surface.
To be fair.. full disclosure:
- Thread starter
- #29
I don't think anyone is saying the GT500 is a better track car than the GT3 or GT3 RS but because the Porsche is the gold standard it's a good target to see how fast the GT500 can be. I've driven a .1 GT3 RS on track and it was a scalpel. After driving it I was was amazed how easy it was to place on track and how fast it was. The .2 is even faster. At a track day with a few friends the day after thanksgiving one was driving a new GT and the other a new .2 GT3 RS. The guy with the RS had a .1 and I said to my son that's like the one I drove. My son says no he's got a .2. I said no he has a .1. Turns out he just traded in his .1 for the .2 a few weeks before (same color) and I didn't know about it. Anyway besides sounding freakin amazing on track he's very fast and even faster in his new .2. He flew by me on track. My son rode with him one session and said he was going 13 mph faster into T1 than me in my .1 C2S. My son said that was the fastest drive he's ever been on track and even in the passenger seat could feel the aero pushing the car down. The owner told me the car cost $243,000, so double what a GT500 would cost with $25K adm.
Regardless how fast the GT is or isn't it's still an unbelievably cool car. You gotta at least give Ford some credit for building it.
Regardless how fast the GT is or isn't it's still an unbelievably cool car. You gotta at least give Ford some credit for building it.
OUCH!..And I was whining about my $5K ADM for my Boss, back in the day.......
Bill Pemberton
0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
Now, remember we bought a GT 500 from another Dealer ( along with sucking down 10 Explorers we sure don't need ) and because of that we have a 10K ADM ,not 25-40 I keep hearing most have.
Was still available this afternoon ,though it was ordered ---silver , black stripes,recaros , electronics package.
Was still available this afternoon ,though it was ordered ---silver , black stripes,recaros , electronics package.
Rick: No question the new FGT is a cool bit of kit. It was just very over hyped (50 year return, publicity campaign, application process etc..) over priced (right at the max allowed for homlogation and $150k more expensive than the next highest priced homlogated competitor) and under delivered for a car whose reason de etre’ was to win at LeMans (one LeMans win from 2016 to 2019 i.e. lost 3 out of 4).
Cool car? Fast car? Absolutely but Emperor’s got no clothes going on here thing with much of the public? Yup...
But perception can be reality.
Cool car? Fast car? Absolutely but Emperor’s got no clothes going on here thing with much of the public? Yup...
But perception can be reality.
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I'm thinking ADM's for the GT500 will dip to $25k or less, once the initial excitement starts to fade.Bill, your groups $10k ADM is pretty fair at this stage of the game...Although I hate mentioning ADM's at all!!!...it's like running fingernails down a chalkboard, to me.............
Bill Pemberton
0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
In the automotive landscape perception has long been reality. The pressure to build another GT after the success of the 2004-2006 was very much a part of the actual reality too.
We all have differing opinions, but seeing over the years how difficult it is to bring a car to the track, build it, develop it and win, pretty
re the GT will go down in the annuals of
racing with a load of highlights. Nineteen wins , huge number of polls ,is nothing to sneeze at and the number of machines that have won at LeMans in 4 year period is rather limited ---heck, some have never won.
The number of my clients that begged and called me for advice on how to get one of these beauties ( of course with the Ford Program Dealers were left in the lurch) shows the real success of the program and whether some are not that enamored by the machine the bulk are blown away - ask anyone who was at the Mustang Roundup and got a ride in one!
Anyway we are all wandering, me included, the real story here is about a stellar Pony car and a Porsche and the surprising results, to many, under the tutelage of Mr. Randy Pobst.
PonyCar , Porsche, and Pobst ……...the tale of American Muscle pushing the power of one of Porsche's finest!!
We all have differing opinions, but seeing over the years how difficult it is to bring a car to the track, build it, develop it and win, pretty
re the GT will go down in the annuals of
racing with a load of highlights. Nineteen wins , huge number of polls ,is nothing to sneeze at and the number of machines that have won at LeMans in 4 year period is rather limited ---heck, some have never won.
The number of my clients that begged and called me for advice on how to get one of these beauties ( of course with the Ford Program Dealers were left in the lurch) shows the real success of the program and whether some are not that enamored by the machine the bulk are blown away - ask anyone who was at the Mustang Roundup and got a ride in one!
Anyway we are all wandering, me included, the real story here is about a stellar Pony car and a Porsche and the surprising results, to many, under the tutelage of Mr. Randy Pobst.
PonyCar , Porsche, and Pobst ……...the tale of American Muscle pushing the power of one of Porsche's finest!!
Bill Pemberton
0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
Bob, I do understand , yet we can't sell the car for MSRP when we paid more than that for it. I am just hoping our long term vision works, as getting more GT 500s and GT 350s is all based on what is called in the Industry, " Turn and Earn. " Now if you want a GT 350R with no ADM we would be happy to help you , now, ha.
I bought a bunch of Vipers , from other Dealers , back in 1999 and then resold them, allowing Woodhouse to become # 2 in the Nation with Snakes that year. Turn and Earn doesn't work that fast anymore, but hopefully in 3-5 years we will be able to help a lot more folks get into performance vehicles. Time will tell and I sincerely appreciate your thoughts.
I bought a bunch of Vipers , from other Dealers , back in 1999 and then resold them, allowing Woodhouse to become # 2 in the Nation with Snakes that year. Turn and Earn doesn't work that fast anymore, but hopefully in 3-5 years we will be able to help a lot more folks get into performance vehicles. Time will tell and I sincerely appreciate your thoughts.
TMSBOSS
Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
The dealership I work with in the Chicago area sold 200% of their allotment of 05-05 FGTs. Most of their "Excess" came from dealerships in the Dakotas and other farming areas. Some were bought for cash and others traded for top end pickup(s). Most of the folks who bought their FGT's came back for several other fords. I guess when you give people what they want, they come back. Who knew. Lol.
Grant 302
basic and well known psychic
Enough of the FGT discussion. Far enough off topic.
Bill: How does it work with the 500? Does Ford allot X per dealer based on what?..or is it based on what you order?
I suspect the 500 will become very accessible to dealers in the near future as demand will be high and Ford will build plenty to meet demand.
I don’t see anything to that make me think the cycle will be any different than the GT350.
Bill Pemberton
0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
Vehicles are allocated based on Sales and at present we are sold out at all three Dealerships this year and likely next. That is why we are working to build sales numbers in the hope that our allocation will increase next year. Ford is pretty good, compared to others , in keeping limited models just that, and it will likely take 2 years ( in my estimation ) to get a better supply . This would mirror the GT 350 , and I agree with you things will loosen up , but I would be surprised if it is in the near future.
Chatting with folks at Ford , I think they are even surprised by the demand on the GT 500 as well as the EV Mustang. I just look at all of this as a positive for those of us who like performance vehicles.
Have a nice day and are you going to make it to the SVT Cobra event at VIR since it is just down the road from you?
Chatting with folks at Ford , I think they are even surprised by the demand on the GT 500 as well as the EV Mustang. I just look at all of this as a positive for those of us who like performance vehicles.
Have a nice day and are you going to make it to the SVT Cobra event at VIR since it is just down the road from you?
The price of the new GT500 may limit the customer base a little, especially with options and an ADM thrown in...although, some diehards may re-mortgage the house or sleep in the car if they have to.....
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