5.0 CPC vs. 5.2 FPC in the GT350

[VoodooBoss]

So what if Ford didn't make the new 5.2 FPC and had stayed with a 5.0 (or even 5.2) CPC and used the new intake or the CJ intake and put the hotter cams in it and spun it up to 8,500 RPM's? Which would you rather have? While the FPC is really cool won't adding counter weights, or whatever they did, to keep it from vibrating apart take away from the advantages of a FPC? I guess you keep the improved exhaust flow but I have to wonder. You know Ford has a couple of 5.0's they've tweaked on sitting around. Plenty of people including a couple of BMO members have 5.0's putting out 500+ at the crank so if they can do it you know Ford already has. Thoughts?

 

[coboss]

Removing the weight from the crankshaft is the point of FPC. It is not only the ability to rev to 8500RPM, it is the speed with which you can rev to 8500 RPM, and the fact that with less rotating weight, the block doesn't have to be as stiff/heavy. You get a more freely revving engine, and because the crank *and* the block are lighter, less overall engine weight. In theory anyway, since we don't yet know the weight of the 5.2 vs. the 5.0.

As someone who has seen decades worth of super cool automotive technologies flame out, I would wait at least two years before going with this engine. Flame away on me, but I'll let the early adopters shake out the bugs. Ferrari and the like have been FPC for a long time, but that is a totally different market segment.

 

[fuhrius]

Removing the weight from the crankshaft is the point of FPC. It is not only the ability to rev to 8500RPM, it is the speed with which you can rev to 8500 RPM, and the fact that with less rotating weight, the block doesn't have to be as stiff/heavy. You get a more freely revving engine, and because the crank *and* the block are lighter, less overall engine weight. In theory anyway, since we don't yet know the weight of the 5.2 vs. the 5.0.

As someone who has seen decades worth of super cool automotive technologies flame out, I would wait at least two years before going with this engine. Flame away on me, but I'll let the early adopters shake out the bugs. Ferrari and the like have been FPC for a long time, but that is a totally different market segment.

no flames from me but I think that manufacturers are far more sophisticated, these days, with prototyping and testing that I'm less concerned about being and 'early adopter' of something like the FPC engine.
To your point on revs, I'm as interested in how quickly the motor rev's to redline as I am in what that redline is and am hoping that the FPC is a thriller from that perspective.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Agreed on the lighter crankshaft and what that does for the engine to develop power and rev quicker. The firing order and the exhaust flow is also an added benefit and the one Ford keeps mentioning. The headers are different on the 5.2 compared to the ones on our cars in order maximize that flow. So far the tachs in the GT350 show a redline of 8200 rpm's. Our engines are capable of doing that and supposedly have been run up to 9000 although I doubt for long. The 5.2 will be one of the largest displacement FPC's out so Ford is pushing the limits there.

 

[coboss]

The 5.2 will be one of the largest displacement FPC's out so Ford is pushing the limits there.

I think Ferrari's largest V8 has been 4.5L. Heck, they made a 1.5L V12! I think the biggest V12 they ever made was only 5.0L.

Speaking of small V12s, this is one of the coolest cars ever made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeUMDY01uUA

 

[2012-Boss]

I am not really sure that the rumored FPC 8200 RPM redline is comparable to the Boss limits. While the Boss has been run and raced at the same rpm, passing Ford's durability testing with an 8200 RPM is another matter. I suspect that to pass durability requirements at 8200, the FPC will be able to rev to 8500 or 8600 under certain conditions such as a race car with a 50 hour service life.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I'm not saying they should drop a Boss motor in the GT350 and raise the rev limiter. What I think is Ford has Coyote test motors built up to rev just as high or higher and can pass the durability testing. And they are putting out similar HP to the 5.2.

 

[2012-Boss]

I'm not saying they should drop a Boss motor in the GT350 and raise the rev limiter. What I think is Ford has Coyote test motors built up to rev just as high or higher and can pass the durability testing. And they are putting out similar HP to the 5.2.

I do not doubt that one bit. I was thinking more in terms of a bolt on Boss with cams when I probably should have thought NA Cobra Jet. With that frame of reference, I would really be interested in the cost / benefit trade off analysis.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I probably should have thought NA Cobra Jet. With that frame of reference, I would really be interested in the cost / benefit trade off analysis.

That's what I'm getting at. With a Coyote sitting on your shelf that's capable of beating a Z/28 why go through the expense of a FPC version?

 

[Brandon302]

That's what I'm getting at. With a Coyote sitting on your shelf that's capable of beating a Z/28 why go through the expense of a FPC version?

Because people will buy it and cause the next iteration they put into the regular mustang to be cheaper, just like every other technology.

 

[Grant 302]

That's what I'm getting at. With a Coyote sitting on your shelf that's capable of beating a Z/28 why go through the expense of a FPC version?

I think is simply falls under the 'If we build it, people will buy' sort of thinking. And I think it's working.

Any of us could build a Coyote based engine to out run the stock Voodoo...but where's the fun in that? I bought a late first year 5.0 Coyote for the new engine, while I had a a couple of potent 4.6s already in the garage. I am basically doing the same getting a 350 late in the first year...all for that engine. If the GT350 was Coyote based, I probably would pass and wait for what's next.

 

[VoodooBoss]

If the GT350 was Coyote based, I probably would pass and wait for what's next.

It is coyote based, at least uses the same block design, the intake bolts on and so would the headers if they worked. I won't be surprised if the oil pan does too.

 

[Grant 302]

It is coyote based, at least uses the same block design, the intake bolts on and so would the headers if they worked. I won't be surprised if the oil pan does too.

I just mean CPC and firing order.

I'd expect a lot of the parts to cross-bolt. Everything Modular has the same bore centers for machining on the same factory equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 50% or 100% of the parts that are able to cross bolt.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I think is simply falls under the 'If we build it, people will buy' sort of thinking. And I think it's working.

I agree, to a point.

The mind set that we will continue to build old tech until the market demands new has left GM with pushrod engines.

Ford is making more power per cube than any other N/A engine.

Ford is looking good world wide. I believe the steps Ford has taken to improve their technology has had a lot to do with this.

 

[2012-Boss]

It is possible that it is easier to make 500+ horsepower with the FPC and it is not as close to being maxed out on its potential power production as a coyote. That would leave ford with the ability to build a new series of race and crate engines with much higher NA power levels than what is currently offered.

 

[Grant 302]

What I'm really surprised about is that nobody is really talking about the use of the CJ or Boss intake on the Voodoo engine.

I can only guess that it's partly for packaging and the low rise hood, and presumably for the preservation of torque. Can't wait for the race shops to try some of that stuff, assuming the port shapes are the same and there aren't other compatibility issues like CMC plates. Otherwise, it might have to be a custom fabbed aluminum intake first.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I think the better question is how the GT350 intake is going to work on our cars. . Look for FP to have a kit later this year.

 

[Grant 302]

Interested in the numbers...but definitely *not* interested in making my Boss look like a GT. :-\

I already have one of those.

 

[DGRacing]

What I'm really surprised about is that nobody is really talking about the use of the CJ or Boss intake on the Voodoo engine.

I can only guess that it's partly for packaging and the low rise hood, and presumably for the preservation of torque. Can't wait for the race shops to try some of that stuff, assuming the port shapes are the same and there aren't other compatibility issues like CMC plates. Otherwise, it might have to be a custom fabbed aluminum intake first.

The Boss manifold is design limited to perform at peak 7500
and CJ intake at peak 7750. Given the FPC motor is capped at what? 8200 from the factory? I'd bet the CFM of that low-pro plenum on the new car has higher flow than CJ intake.
But it looks ordinary.

This shop is one of the best I'm told.
http://www.marcellamanifolds.net/images/Images.html

I'll have to have one made after my big bore motor goes in because the CJ intake will be the limiting factor then.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Check out the size of the runners on the Voodoo:




Full album: http://imgur.com/a/JZRC0