Anthony's Full Build/Mods thread

[venom52]

Everything makes noise. I have spherical bearings everywhere. And yes, the spherical UPR and diff bushing together make noise. I also did a check to make sure everything is articulating properly yesterday. I unhooked the UPR and made sure there was no play in the diff bushing and that is was not deformed at all. Then I removed the springs and ran the axle through its range of motion to make sure it was all good. Only two track days, but if it was binding, there would already be play in it according to BMR. Anyway, many have told me that you should do what I did after installing the diff bushing just to be sure nothing is binding.

Thanks for the info. I definitely don't have any binding just normal spherical noises.

 

[antman450]

Went to Fontana yesterday. It was 105 out and I destroyed my rear tires. They would not hold and I kept spinning out off throttle by the second session. I put them on the front the last session and all I got was massive under steer to the point that I pulled off after two laps. I guess you overheat tires and they can just STOP working.

Quick question for some thoughts. I had this happen at Buttonwillow and then again at Fontana. So, two track days on this car and happened both days. My alignment was normal before each track day and yet after, the car pulled to the right. I went and got an alignment after Buttonwillow and the toe was off. I have not checked it after this weekend but driving down the street it definitely pulls right. Is this normal after a track day? I would think not. I would imagine your alignment should not get wacked out after a day at the track. I figured first track day was because everything was newly installed and had to "settle," so to speak. Then I re-torqued all bolts thinking that it would not happen again, yet it did.

One final note. I was having my breather can fill up from the driver's side vent (I mean in 2 sessions at Buttonwillow, 1/2 quart in the can) and everyone was saying I had something seriously wrong (blow by, "get a compression test", things like that). Turns out, I did forget to hollow out the PCV valve on the passenger side and this was causing the oil to blow out the driver's side. I am assuming since there was no vacuum on the PCV to open it. I hollowed it out and now, there was barely 1/4 ounce of oil in the breather can after all day at Fontana. And I changed the oil with 8 full quarts before Fontana.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Good news about the oil situation, but the alignment bit is definitely not normal. Not sure where that would be coming from but perhaps something in the tie rod(s) or ball joints, maybe blown-out front LCA hydro-bushings if those are still stock.

 

[antman450]

Good news about the oil situation, but the alignment bit is definitely not normal. Not sure where that would be coming from but perhaps something in the tie rod(s) or ball joints, maybe blown-out front LCA hydro-bushings if those are still stock.

I have new hubs, new Bumpsteer kit, new control arms, new everything. And everything is spherical bearings. I will have to see where things went off. Maybe the tie rod jam nuts need replacing. Nothing looks out of the ordinary at all. It is really strange. If my next alignment specs come out the same as after the last track day (Left toe went in .3 degrees) must be something on that side. Right toe was fine.

BTW, have you ever had a set of tires go from working fine to completely gone in 30 minutes? First session was not bad. Second session got worse. By the third session, I could not keep the car from spinning off throttle going into a turn. Just to see if it was the tires, I put them on the front and I then could not turn the damn car, so definitely tires went poo poo.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Tire question has a lot of variables. Age of tires, number of heat cycles, pressures, driving style, ambient conditions & track surface temp...it's certainly possible on older tires--and if they were on the rear--are you spinning the tires frequently on corner exit or sliding the car?

@blacksheep-1 is our resident tire guru and may have more feedback.

 

[antman450]

Tire question has a lot of variables. Age of tires, number of heat cycles, pressures, driving style, ambient conditions & track surface temp...it's certainly possible on older tires--and if they were on the rear--are you spinning the tires frequently on corner exit or sliding the car?

@blacksheep-1 is our resident tire guru and may have more feedback.

Actually, I almost never spit them. I'm very conscientious with the throttle in the car handles very neutral. In any case, these tires were on the front on my last track day and I put them on the back when I was at Fontana. I think because it was so freaking hot outside and the track temp was around 125°, I just cook them in the first session and destroyed them. I'm more interested in finding out the deal with the alignment. I have some investigating to do


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[blacksheep-1]

What was the make and size of tire and the hot pressures? I've worked with track temps over 140 with no issues.

 

[antman450]

Pirelli slicks 305 680 18. 31 PSI. I think they were just used up and totally fell off.


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[blacksheep-1]

When Pirelli's go, they really go, on the other hand 31 psi is way too high, I'd look to 28.5 29 hot.
They are usually good for about 5 heat cycles before they fully give up, but they lose some at 2. In the future try to find some Continentals, they will stay useful longer, although the Pirellis will be faster.

 

[antman450]

Useful longer vs. moderately faster is a better scenario. The Pirelli's did just GO. I mean night and day. I did use them for 6 20 minute sessions with great success at Buttonwillow. That would be 6 heat cycles, right? Also, you thing R7's would last longer than slicks?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Useful longer vs. moderately faster is a better scenario. The Pirelli's did just GO. I mean night and day. I did use them for 6 20 minute sessions with great success at Buttonwillow. That would be 6 heat cycles, right? Also, you thing R7's would last longer than slicks?

Well, if you have a source for slick take offs that are reasonably priced, I'd stay on the slicks, if you want to try something else, then the R7 might be a good choice, here's what Hoosier has to say..
Quote:
What is an R-compound Tire?

The “R” in r-compound stands for race, so an r-compound tire is a tire constructed with a racing compound. R-compound tires are track tires that feature purposeful tread designs, high grip tread compounds and tuned internal constructions to provide the ultimate in acceleration, cornering and braking traction.

When forms of auto racing instituted classes which require DOT approved street tires, some race tire manufacturers began to market tires which superficially resembled their high performance street tires, but with the least tread permissible and with very soft, sticky rubber, intended specifically for competition because the soft tread would wear too quickly for street use. These became known, loosely, as R compound tires. With additional years of progress, this class of track tire has in its turn followed its own line of development, to the point where they have little in common with true street tires of the same brand.

When compared to the “ultimate” or “extreme” performance summer tires offered by all the tire manufacturers, DOT R-compound tires provide significantly more dry traction which results in lap times that are 3-6 seconds quicker when installed on similarly equipped track cars and significantly faster lap times for cars that have been setup to take advantage of the sticker compound of the r-comp track tire. Typically r-compound DOT tires have tread ratings of 40-80 with the lower ratings indicating a softer and sticker tire which will provide more grip for your track car at your favorite closed course facility.

Like any tire, if you want it to last longer, then you must "break it in", Tire Rack offers this, but I'd rather do it myself, which means maybe 5 hot laps, a cool down of 5 minutes and 5 more, then wait until the next session, this way the tire's life will be increased, now, keep in mind, the best that tire will ever be is the first 5 laps, so you're giving up that temporary "speed" for longevity.
As an example a sticker tire we qualify on will have a marked decrease in longevity compared to a tire we've scuffed prior to use.
As kind of a gauge, most races are about 50 minutes long in Pirelli, plus qualifying on the same tires, so you probably got the best out of those tires with 6/20 minute (120 minute total) use. I realize track day guys don't abuse their stuff as much as we do, but I'd say they were used up at that point.
I'd also really concentrate on keeping those Pirellis below 29.0 psi hot pressure.

 

[antman450]

I just wonder if the slicks take-offs are run as a qualifier and race and then sold. Then, as you said, they are used up by then. I got take-offs Pirelli's and got 6 20 minute track day sessions out of them with really good performance. Then at Fontana, they started to fall off terribly after the first session.

I would like to find a good source for take offs. But I would rather spend the money on sticker R7's if I am only going to get one good track day out of take offs. Wait, I know! I will just have to make more money so this dilemma solves itself.

 

[Fabman]

Wait, I know! I will just have to make more money so this dilemma solves itself.

that's what we're all trying to do....

 

[antman450]

that's what we're all trying to do....

I thought the irony of the statement was thick enough without saying. LOL

 

[Fabman]

I thought the irony of the statement was thick enough without saying. LOL

You know me, I have an amazing grasp of the painfully obvious.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well, the well healed teams are going through as many as 6 sets a weekend in GT which is just completely insane, some of those tires have maybe 20 minutes on them. For the rest of us, we use basically 3 new sets per race. The weekend goes like this..the first practice/shakedown is on race 2 scuffs from the last week (more on this later). The tires that are qualifiers and run race 1 on will be the worst set, so I change those out first thing, (remember, 2 races in Pirelli). So once we run the race 2 tires, for the shakedown and maybe first practice, I change those out. Then we run the majority of practices on the last weeks "5 minute" scuffs. For the last 5 minutes in practice we run stickers to validate our numbers and also they use the fastest practice times to que up the qualifying positions. These practice stickers are now put away for either spares or for next weeks practice tires.
That leaves a sticker set for qual/race 1, and a sticker set for race 2, and the routine starts over.
The only time this changes is if we run Sprint X, which requires yet another set of tires. So generally speaking Pirelli tires will have maybe 2 heat cycles on them (the race 2 tires), or as many as 4 (qual/race) set. Both will have about 60 minutes of run time. The 5 minute scuffs will be somewhere in the middle, less time, but more cycles.

 

[antman450]

Well, the well healed teams are going through as many as 6 sets a weekend in GT which is just completely insane, some of those tires have maybe 20 minutes on them. For the rest of us, we use basically 3 new sets per race. The weekend goes like this..the first practice/shakedown is on race 2 scuffs from the last week (more on this later). The tires that are qualifiers and run race 1 on will be the worst set, so I change those out first thing, (remember, 2 races in Pirelli). So once we run the race 2 tires, for the shakedown and maybe first practice, I change those out. Then we run the majority of practices on the last weeks "5 minute" scuffs. For the last 5 minutes in practice we run stickers to validate our numbers and also they use the fastest practice times to que up the qualifying positions. These practice stickers are now put away for either spares or for next weeks practice tires.
That leaves a sticker set for qual/race 1, and a sticker set for race 2, and the routine starts over.
The only time this changes is if we run Sprint X, which requires yet another set of tires. So generally speaking Pirelli tires will have maybe 2 heat cycles on them (the race 2 tires), or as many as 4 (qual/race) set. Both will have about 60 minutes of run time. The 5 minute scuffs will be somewhere in the middle, less time, but more cycles.

Very enlightening. Thank you for that. And, not sure if you can answer this so I apologize beforehand, but what do you do with your used tires?


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[blacksheep-1]

If they are in FL, I may take a set home, soak them in goat pee and autocross on them..lol
the rest are usually scrapped, because for our level of competition, they are no longer useful if Pirellis. Now and then we'll get a cherry set due to a wreck or rain race and we'll save them.
I did however, just get an e-mail from Joe this morning

Good morning Rob..

I have about 16 275 X18 A7's for sale at 125 per tire..

These are all in very good condition 2 to 3 heat cycles..

Could you post some this on some of the Mustang forums for me...



Thanks.

Joe

Joe Aquilante
481 Schuylkill Rd
Phoenixville, Pa. 19460
610-482-0141

 

[Mad Hatter]

Goat pee...., thats something we have a lot of down here! We have to give it a try

 

[Fabman]

Goat pee...., thats something we have a lot of down here! We have to give it a try

I wonder who figured that out...