The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Any Reviews/Experience w/ Maximum Motorsports Suspension Package

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Grant 302 said:
As an owner of a Brembo GT and a Boss, the front of the Boss is about 1/2" lower and the P springs (which I have on my GT) only drop you about 1/2" from there. The back isn't even lowered at all. I know that even dropping the GT ~1" from stock that there are a lot of unwanted suspension geometry changes both front and rear.

I'm probably not making myself clear about the bumpsteer kit. I believe that at that drop it is good to adjust the ROLL CENTER with tall ball joints (like the 302S/R or FR500 cars). IF you change the ROLL CENTER, you should also get a bumpsteer kit.

Also want to add that I recommend LCA brackets for the rear with any drop over 1/2". But I'm sure there will be some disagreement about that too! While I understood the benefits on paper, I didn't know how bad I needed them until after I put them on.
I don't know a whole lot about suspensions, but isn't it all dependent on the driver? Everyone has a different style and maybe some people can work with or around the geometry changes.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
dsm3383 said:
The MM kit comes with LCAs and an adjustable panhard bar.

That's not what I'm talking about. I mean brackets to lower the rear mounting point for the LCA like these:
http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-lca-relocation-bracket-0512.html
http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-lca-relocationbracket-0512.html
http://www.americanmuscle.com/whiteline-lca-relocationbrackets-0513.html

dsm3383 said:

Terrible. That's just an ad for the kit. See how there's no data in it? From the article:

"We have yet to take the car to an autocross or road course. We can tell you though that on the street the handling difference is impressive."

Usually, that means they didn't want to post back to back lap times...because the actual gains (if any) were small. And seriously, most gains in grip from the kit are probably coming from the CC plates and dampers. I'd be surprised if the 1.2g quoted was done with stock tires like the 255/40 P Zeros.

Brandon302 said:
I don't know a whole lot about suspensions, but isn't it all dependent on the driver? Everyone has a different style and maybe some people can work with or around the geometry changes.

To some extent, sure. There are handling characteristics that are pure preference. I wouldn't put somebody who isn't comfortable correcting or counter-steering in a car that's loose. But for example, I doubt anybody would prefer driving my car without the LCA brackets in a back to back test. Street, road course, 1/4 mile... Pro or amateur. Some differences are just that obvious.
 
Domestic Product said:
As good as the Konis are the Bilsteins are better.

What are you basing this on?? No disrespect, I had Bilsteins on my Grand National and loved them. I've been eyeballing them from afar but it seems everyone goes with the Koni Yellows. Like Grant 302 said, Keep it Simple. If I have everything adjustable I will just get into trouble.

So my questions, how do they compare to the Yellows and how do they compare to the stock struts with "P" springs??
 
367
1
2012Boss302 said:
What are you basing this on?? No disrespect, I had Bilsteins on my Grand National and loved them. I've been eyeballing them from afar but it seems everyone goes with the Koni Yellows. Like Grant 302 said, Keep it Simple. If I have everything adjustable I will just get into trouble.

So my questions, how do they compare to the Yellows and how do they compare to the stock struts with "P" springs??

Also, the billies cannot handle a 300+ lb/in spring rate without revalving. So that cost will need to be factored in
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
I agree that lowering changes roll center, but that wasnt the question I was answering.

Unless I have it all wrong, if you lower but don't change the geometry or work the suspension outside of the designed travel range, bump steer will not change, right?

The way im picturing it, if stock suspension compresses 3" in a turn, and a 2" lowered compresses 1" in the same turn at the same rate of speed, the bump steer condition would remain the same.

I admit, I am still learning about suspension, but I think I have this aspect right? Is there something in reducing body roll, that changes bump steer geometry?
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
2012Boss302 said:
What are you basing this on?? No disrespect, I had Bilsteins on my Grand National and loved them. I've been eyeballing them from afar but it seems everyone goes with the Koni Yellows. Like Grant 302 said, Keep it Simple. If I have everything adjustable I will just get into trouble.

So my questions, how do they compare to the Yellows and how do they compare to the stock struts with "P" springs??

None taken, I do not have any back to back testing if that's what you mean. I have the Bilstein Vorshlag package on the Boss with K springs and some other stuff. The car is transformed. Have a buddy that picked up a SBY 13 and after seeing my car on the track and then driving it he put the same package on. So it is just my opinion. I would guess that MM is offering them as a upgrade for more money cause they are better? Take a close look at the write up Vorshlag has on the Bilsteins. I would guess Vorshlag could sell Konis if they wanted to.http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_179&products_id=642 I was totally unimpressed with the stock Tokico shocks I did track my car a couple times stock just to see. Any way Konis or Bilstein will be a big improvement IMO.
Back to the OP, order the package you want, get it installed and go out and have some fun! you can worry about the next set of mods that your mods need and so on latter.
 
367
1
pufferfish said:
I agree that lowering changes roll center, but that wasnt the question I was answering.

Unless I have it all wrong, if you lower but don't change the geometry or work the suspension outside of the designed travel range, bump steer will not change, right?

The way im picturing it, if stock suspension compresses 3" in a turn, and a 2" lowered compresses 1" in the same turn at the same rate of speed, the bump steer condition would remain the same.

I admit, I am still learning about suspension, but I think I have this aspect right? Is there something in reducing body roll, that changes bump steer geometry?

You are right that bump steer does not change in the scenario you describe (ie: stock compresses 3' in a turn, and a car lowered 2' compresses 1' in the same turn). But the honest likelihood of that happening is pretty low, unless the springs are rock hard or the roll center is adjusted appropriately. Lowering a car actually will increase its tendency to roll (ie: the car wants to roll more deeply than before) due to the change in roll center. The difference between change in roll center and the up change in spring rate is not linear, so it's hard to make it "right" only by changing spring rate alone. Additionally, as the car rolls, the roll center continues to drop...so even if the spring rate accounts for 1 very small situation, it will not account for the entire change in the range of motion.

So if we accept that:

1) A lowered car will want to roll more
2) A lowered car will roll more deeply into the suspension travel than stock due to change in roll center

Then yes, bump steer will be working "outside of the designed range of movement" that was originally intended for the chassis. So I guess I side with you that if you only lower the car + fix roll center, you may very well not need bumpsteer. This is true if we like the stock characteristics of the front end. Changing bump steer is just another option for tuning...the characteristics of the car differ greatly when you play with it.

Back to my old BMW... It was lowered 2+ inches over stock, and I can get it to ride bump stops in slow 2nd gear corners. This is with Bilstein PSS9 coilovers at a 460lb/in spring rate in the front and additional strut travel (shorter than stock struts). This translated to the car rolling more deeply into the suspension travel than it ever would have when stock. So I did experience quite noticable changes mid corner due to bump steer:

421217_10152129340565257_1530630795_n.jpg


Bump stop riding confirmed when checking with a ziptie :) And no, there was no bumpsteer or roll center modification at this ride height.

Question to everyone who has the car lowered as much as the MM kit (2+ inches): Are the lower front arms still parallel to the ground, or do they point upwards? That'll give you a hint with regards to where the roll center has gone at rest.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
pufferfish said:
I agree that lowering changes roll center, but that wasnt the question I was answering.

Unless I have it all wrong, if you lower but don't change the geometry or work the suspension outside of the designed travel range, bump steer will not change, right?

The way im picturing it, if stock suspension compresses 3" in a turn, and a 2" lowered compresses 1" in the same turn at the same rate of speed, the bump steer condition would remain the same.

I admit, I am still learning about suspension, but I think I have this aspect right? Is there something in reducing body roll, that changes bump steer geometry?

That's not right. First, I think the definition of bump steer is confused. In a nutshell, it is: How does the toe change as the suspension is compressed and elongated from the static height. An x/y plot can be made for degrees/in. of toe vs. compression/droop. This helps describe steering changes in bump, dip, brake, accel. and roll conditions in terms and numbers that are easier to understand.

When you lower the car, you will change where you start on that curve. Also add (small) changes due to the re-alignment at the new static height. It has little to do with reducing the amount of body roll. At the same ride height, I would say that changing roll stiffness has nothing to do with bump steer properties. It is only that lowering changes suspension geometry and in turn bump steer.

This simplified image below that I found illustrates to some extent how lowering affects the steering geometry which may be improved from a bump steer kit.
BumpSteerdrawingforTheOfficialSuspe.png

I hope that clears everything up! :)
 
hi guys. I am looking for the best option to drop the rear of the car-rid the truck look so to speak.
I don't want to wreck the factory tuned suspension or create a rough ride as I will use it for daily driving, no track time period. just trying to lower the rear period. thoughts? ideas?
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
daboss2279 said:
hi guys. I am looking for the best option to drop the rear of the car-rid the truck look so to speak.
I don't want to wreck the factory tuned suspension or create a rough ride as I will use it for daily driving, no track time period. just trying to lower the rear period. thoughts? ideas?

Have you looked into the Boss specific FRPP T-springs or maybe just the P rears?

Only other things you need to add IMO would be LCA brackets and an adjustable panhard bar.
 
367
1
BMR and Steeda also sell springs as a rear pair only.
Those might be the most economical choices when you go that route.
Consider getting updated bump stops to deal with the reduced bump travel (in addition to at minimum a new panhard)
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top