Anyone who thinks details are not important (tires)

[blacksheep-1]

Should have watched the last F1 race. Although it's been done before, Bottas came in to the pits in 3rd spot, put a set of stickers on and blistered the race record taking points away from Verstappen.
When I say that you can't beat sticker tires, this is what I'm talking about. The F1 guys have an advantage that they are allowed tire warmers, where we have to set them in the sun, (just to store them, not to warm them, you understand) Several years ago a team was penalized because they took their tires and set them inside the garage at Daytona in front of the propane heater, when it was in the thirties outside.
But again, the premise is simple, you can have fast tires for a short period, or OK tires for a long period, name your poison.
I do wonder how they warm them though, do they have some metric of track/ambient temp that they use, and then just turn the thermostat to reflect that in the "oven". or is it simpler than that? I know they take the old wheels, stuff them into a water blaster cabinet, and it removes EVERYTHING, weights, glue, anything that gets in the way. I get to scrape them with Brake clean... lol

 

[xr7]

Is this the year that F1 switched to 18's?
Knowing those F1 teams they probably have spent $10m on some program analyzing each tire carcass and the weather forecast combined with the current state of solar flares and tides to determine optimal pressure and temp. Should make them run 200TW tires from Wal-Mart.

 

[TMSBOSS]

xr7.

Are we brothers?? LOL

 

[Fabman]

Should have watched the last F1 race. Although it's been done before, Bottas came in to the pits in 3rd spot, put a set of stickers on and blistered the race record taking points away from Verstappen.
When I say that you can't beat sticker tires, this is what I'm talking about. The F1 guys have an advantage that they are allowed tire warmers, where we have to set them in the sun, (just to store them, not to warm them, you understand) Several years ago a team was penalized because they took their tires and set them inside the garage at Daytona in front of the propane heater, when it was in the thirties outside.
But again, the premise is simple, you can have fast tires for a short period, or OK tires for a long period, name your poison.
I do wonder how they warm them though, do they have some metric of track/ambient temp that they use, and then just turn the thermostat to reflect that in the "oven". or is it simpler than that? I know they take the old wheels, stuff them into a water blaster cabinet, and it removes EVERYTHING, weights, glue, anything that gets in the way. I get to scrape them with Brake clean... lol

My wheels need scraping....can you help me with that?

 

[blacksheep-1]

No.. it never ends

 

[blacksheep-1]

Is this the year that F1 switched to 18's?
Knowing those F1 teams they probably have spent $10m on some program analyzing each tire carcass and the weather forecast combined with the current state of solar flares and tides to determine optimal pressure and temp. Should make them run 200TW tires from Wal-Mart.

Next year I think.
As I recall they were going to bring them in 1 year before the new chassis, not sure if it's still on track

 

[xr7]

xr7.

Are we brothers?? LOL

Well, your tag line "Spending my pension on car parts and track fees." is eerily similar to my situation.
Or another analogy, Spend $3,000 on car parts, sure. $25 for a shirt, I don't know, does it have a Mustang on it?
If anything we are in the same brotherhood

 

[racer47]

F1 tire heaters used to be 100C max. Then it was lowered to 80C max a year or 2 ago. 18" wheels and no tires heaters were supposed to be this year but it has been postponed to next year.

 

[blacksheep-1]

F1 tire heaters used to be 100C max. Then it was lowered to 80C max a year or 2 ago. 18" wheels and no tires heaters were supposed to be this year but it has been postponed to next year.

That's pretty interesting, that's about 175 degrees, so warm, but not hot. Before you could have jacked them up to full operating temp and let them fly on the roll out lap.. I'd almost bet that coincides with some type of rules change regarding race fastest lap...

 

[Mad Hatter]

My wheels need scraping....can you help me with that?

Me too!! In for any tips, scuttlebutt or helpful hints.

 

[Meateater]

Is this the year that F1 switched to 18's?
Knowing those F1 teams they probably have spent $10m on some program analyzing each tire carcass and the weather forecast combined with the current state of solar flares and tides to determine optimal pressure and temp. Should make them run 200TW tires from Wal-Mart.

They go to 18s in 2022.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Really, it never ends....

 

[docs302]

Blacksheep......it's like all your little children gathering for feeding time!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Welcome to the Blacksheep Donut Shop, no icing but those are some sticky buns! Gives one a perfect example of tired and retired!

 

[JP X]

Should have watched the last F1 race. Although it's been done before, Bottas came in to the pits in 3rd spot, put a set of stickers on and blistered the race record taking points away from Verstappen.
When I say that you can't beat sticker tires, this is what I'm talking about. The F1 guys have an advantage that they are allowed tire warmers, where we have to set them in the sun, (just to store them, not to warm them, you understand) Several years ago a team was penalized because they took their tires and set them inside the garage at Daytona in front of the propane heater, when it was in the thirties outside.
But again, the premise is simple, you can have fast tires for a short period, or OK tires for a long period, name your poison.
I do wonder how they warm them though, do they have some metric of track/ambient temp that they use, and then just turn the thermostat to reflect that in the "oven". or is it simpler than that? I know they take the old wheels, stuff them into a water blaster cabinet, and it removes EVERYTHING, weights, glue, anything that gets in the way. I get to scrape them with Brake clean... lol

So this might be a dumb question, but based on this example, it is really not necessary to have your tires shaved or heat cycled prior to first use? I've not done that, but I see people talk about it. Seems to me a good way to sell more tires.

 

[blacksheep-1]

So this might be a dumb question, but based on this example, it is really not necessary to have your tires shaved or heat cycled prior to first use? I've not done that, but I see people talk about it. Seems to me a good way to sell more tires.

Not at all. I'm not a fan of heat cycling, or shaving. True, if you're running a street tire class and you want to go fast, then cutting the tread down and getting rid of tread squirm is a good idea, but I just can't rationalize throwing away that much useable rubber.
As has been stated before, the first 4 laps will always be the fastest, but it comes at the cost of longevity, these F1 guys have bigger fish to fry than a $3500 set of tires, so they burn them.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Everyone knows I am a big fan of the Tire Teacher from Florida , and I am not a big fan of shaving or heat cycling to a degree. With so many tires coming out with much lower tread depths, factory fresh, the need for shaving can actually seem redundant. When it comes to heat cycling, letting them do it at the tire distributor has always seemed to have questionable results in my personal experience over the decades --- the main reason I stopped doing it in the last century. I do believe in " Heat Cycling " and though I now appear to be talking out of both sides of my mouth, let me preference that. I have found it quite helpful with certain tires, but I don't like the process as I always do the process myself, which means putting the tires on the car and running them at the track, removing them and letting them cure for lack of a better term. This means you need a second set of tires ( cost ) to replace them with and it is a hassle to heat cycle if you have a racecar that is not street legal. For those whose machines are street/track driven it is not a problem but track only vehicles are a pain. This is because some of my old tire buddies at a couple of Corporations and Distributors actually believe in heat cycling certain tires, whereas it is not considered that beneficial with others. The one comment I got ages ago was to really be effective the so called 24-48 hour waiting period is really too short. Guys I respected have told me as long as a week to a month works the best. I have a set of BFG gforce R1Ss that are actually three years old and they are down on top grip , but great for testing the car on track. I have the found with some tires it has been worthless to heat cycle , but with others there appears to be a benefit. So , like Blacksheep, I am not a fan of either , but there may be an advantage with some brands to actually heat cycle , but frankly only on the street or track, imho.

Sounds like I am disagreeing with BS1, but I imagine with the truckload of tires he usually has at his disposal with Phoenix Performance and others it is a waste and they want stickers to start a race. For those amateurs who have limited budgets it may be a benefit , though it needs to be done the hard way in my experience. It is a hassle, but it has worked for me with some tire brands and not as well with others. Something to consider, and though I would not spend the money to have Tire Rack do the process , it is nice to have their " Link" on the site to see what the manufacturer suggests. In my experience, the Tire Companies suggestions are often pretty decent for recommendation. If you are auto crossing only , skip the heat cycling concerns , I can't see the advantage there.

 

[carver]

This is not track related but certainly tire related. Back in my rally years ( 79-89. ) we spent hours hrs. siping tires by hand with box cutters and the heated tie cutter to customize the tread pattern for our sponsored Bridgestone tires depending on the event which varied from -50 degrees in northern Quebec to 110 degrees in Little Rock Arkansas. Also throw in Tarmac, sand , gravel, mud, snow and glare ice surfaces depending on the event. I guess all the hard work paid off as we won the SCCA Pro Rally triple crown in 88 with the Canadian, U.S. and North American titles in production class. If you zoom in you can see the slightly modded tires. Hahaha.Those are fond memories.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Wow, Carver , I assumed the nickname might have come from autocrossing as you were a cone carver , but now we find you were a tire carver , ha. Super impressive Rally Credentials and you are my new hero. Those were the days of some really intense SCCA competition and winning those titles puts you in very high esteem in my book. You probably know my good friend Pete Gladyzs, who was the Navigator for Doug Shepherd.

Damn, it seems like we find more and more modest racing studs on this site every month, and you are definitely in the category in spades!!

 

[carver]

I was crew chief for Niall Leslie out of Gananoque Ont. and I do remember Doug Shepard ( in his Dodge Shelby Charger ) and some of his co drivers. We probably met a some point. It was a pretty tight community and we would often help other teams out.