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ASKING FORD WHY CALLED IT A MUSTANG?

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Chris - Agreed.

I'm not against EVs and SUVs. The question becomes, "How many buyers of the Mach E are buying them BECAUSE of the Mustang brand." Very few, I expect.
I simply believe the Mustang brand was unique to a class of car and it's being watered down now.
 
Old habits die hard and Old dogs don't like learning new tricks, but a young pup will come scampering to you wagging his tail............................an open mind can lead to vast horizons, if you let it.......................................................Que Sera Sera....................
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
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It's never been marketed as a sportscar by the way, it's clearly presented as a Mustang electric SUV.
But "Mustang...SUV" is as much a non-sequitor as jumbo shrimp. When else in the history of the Mustang nameplate has it been associated with anything other than a 2+2 sports coupe? I think that's what is throwing off so many Mustang enthusiasts.

It's like if you took NASCAR, with it's long history of solid axles with truck-arm suspensions, 4-on-the-floor gearboxes, and 5-lug steel wheels, and suddenly replaced all those cars with Aussie V8 Supercars using double wishbones all around, paddle-shift 5-speed transaxles, and center-lock alloys.
Oh, wait.... :eek:
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
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I know I will change few minds , but I tend to view the Automotive Landscape with a long term marketing view , along with history in the Industry. I sold vehicles for a few years ( 4 ) but left due to the questionable tactics of a couple of the Dealers I worked for. Bob Woodhouse, fellow racer, drug me back because he knew I was a car crazy and he promised his Dealership was different - it was. Almost 27 years later ( Bob sold out to his partner over 10 years ago and went on to race/work on the Board of the World Challenge Series ) I finally retired from Woodhouse Auto Family but single most exciting element that excited me to go to work everyday was the constant change in the Automotive World.

Why this little history being stated , it is simple, I was at the forefront of folks who screamed sacrilege when Porsche said they would do an SUV. It is such a legendary name and those in sportscar land were mortified ---me too. In 2020 Porsche had their best year ever and the Macan is their hot seller. Not really an SUV, more like a Crossover, but it drives like a sportscar. It is hard to argue success, the reason Porsche is admired among the entire industry for their marketing , sales , profits and success is they understand the value of their nameplate.

I want you all on this site to realize you are the few, the proud, the track rats , and yes the influencers . Go to a party and when cars/trucks come up once someone mentions you race all attention often shifts to you. Many wish they had the car you do, or hope to one day , but they have two kids , or work out of their car , or..................you get the drift.

But, selling primarily performance vehicles for the those years I can state only about 10-15% are really the die hards that are on here. The bulk buy the name or the prestige and they get what they can at the time ---- maybe they want a Hellcat , but they can only afford a V6 Challenger.

So buying the name , the Mustang could live on for a very long time, especially supported by a staff of siblings, a Crossover, an EV, maybe even a truck , etc. Think 911 and ask if Porsche would still build that car if not for transitioning to live and grow off their name.

A Mustang Line is what I propose and what I hope Ford is thinking about very deeply , because it would ensure the Mustang we all love would continue. I think many of you would agree it is every bit as iconic as the 911 name and image, so why not make it a separate division. It helped the 911 continue and that should be what we all want, continuance.

Before you say this is not the same , just view history , accept Porsche's success, and realize 80-90% of most performance car buyers never track their car, modify their car , etc. It is the prestige , in their minds , that they drive a specific model.

Lastly , one final thought to ponder, is that the Mustang is the only Pony Car that has had an uninterrupted run and I believe many think the Camaro's days are numbered. I think the Challenger will be morphed, as Tim Kuniskis understands the value of a nameplate and it will become something slightly different.
 
39
57
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
New Braunfels, TX
Sooo, Bill, you're proposing a separate line of cars. Like, what, Mercury? I don't believe "Mustang" needs to be an entire line of cars. You said it yourself, the Mustang is the only pony car (read SPORTS CAR) to run continuously since its inception. The fact that Camaro and Challenger have come and gone makes that fact even more remarkable. THAT'S the sports car "Mustang" that we all know and love, and not just the racers among us. Let the SUV be "Mach E." I'm fine with that.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
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There are plenty of manufacturer lines that have not lasted with most of the Corporations, so I do not compare it to brands like Mercury , Oldsmobile , etc., I think it is one of the single most legendary cars ever built and a seperate line would make some sense. I understand the emotional and passionate issue here at stake, and I am beating a dead horse, but the move by Porsche was no less contentious and yet look at the results over a decade later.

I see a separate branding as a very strong way to ensure the Mustang continues way , way into the future , and like the 911 it lives since it would embody an entire brand. Just like Porsche will not kill the 911 , Ford would not slaughter the golden goose if it epitomizes a successful franchise segment of the Blue Oval Empire.

As you noted, it could very likely be the last Pony car in the near future and Ford could possibly see no need for it to continue alone. As a complete Brand it is the " Halo " for all other models and it would have to live and likely thrive.
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
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the move by Porsche was no less contentious and yet look at the results over a decade later.
True, but (just playing Devil's advocate here) your Porsche analogy isn't quite the same as Ford's use of the Mustang name on the Mach-E SUV. If Porsche had called their SUV a 911 Cayenne, then it would be the same, but they didn't do that. For that matter, they didn't even use the 900-series numbering of their sports cars since the 1960's - 911, 912, 914, 924, 928, 944, 968, etc. They used a completely new name for their SUV with no connection to their sports car models.

For your sub-branding train of thought, I think a perfect example would be the rebranding by Fiat-Chrysler America of the Dodge truck line to Ram. The Ram name had already been used to refer to Dodge pickups, and FCA wanted to shift the use of Dodge to only apply to cars, so using the Ram name for the entire truck line made sense. In this case, the Ram brand vehicles cover a superset of the original Dodge Ram pickup vehicles. However, I doubt that Stellantis (current owner of Ram) would use the Ram namplate on a 5-door hatchback - that would logically fall under the Dodge car line, not the Ram truck line.

So I'd think that even if Ford expanded the Mustang name from a model to sub-brand, logically it would be for only for sporty cars. I think your idea of a Mustang sub-brand may be the equivalent of the SVO/SVT/ST/RS designations that Ford has used in the past & present. I think people might understand that, though I'd still argue it wouldn't be as "smooth" a transition at the Dodge truck-to-Ram change.

Again, playing Devil's advocate here, nothing personal in my arguments. If we were discussing this in person, I'd be buying the next round about now.
 

Ludachris

Chris
Staff member
Moderator
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There's been talk of Chevy doing that with the Corvette - making it its own stand alone brand, sort of what Hyundai did with the Genesis line.

Not sure how that would play out with either the Vette or the Mustang. I think if you just focus on making something really good and marketing it well, you don't have to rely so much on the the name recognition of your most iconic vehicle in the line up to sell the newer offering. And you don't run the risk of watering down the name of that vehicle. That's just my 2 cents. As it's been said, things are changing. We'll see where it goes.
 
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Chris - Agreed.

I'm not against EVs and SUVs. The question becomes, "How many buyers of the Mach E are buying them BECAUSE of the Mustang brand." Very few, I expect.
I simply believe the Mustang brand was unique to a class of car and it's being watered down now.

I'm on a Mach-E forum and you'd be surprised at how many people ended up buying one at least partially due to the name. A LOT of buyers have stated that they wouldn't have given it any attention compared to the Audi, VW, Polestar, etc if it didn't have the Mustang name associated with it. If it were an electric Edge as initially developed, they simply wouldn't have looked into it, test drove it, or bought it.

There's at least two of us LONG TIME forum members here with the GT Performance Edition, and they are a blast to drive. I think the only factory Ford with more torque EVER is the newest 6.7 turbo diesel. My GT PE flat out scoots when I mash the throttle. The magnaride suspension makes it a very, very smooth riding vehicle. Is it a Mustang in the traditional sense of the design? Absolutely not. But neither were the 1974's, the 1979-1993's, the 2001's and so on. IMO, some people just like to cry- whether they realize it or not.
 
39
57
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
New Braunfels, TX
I'm on a Mach-E forum and you'd be surprised at how many people ended up buying one at least partially due to the name. A LOT of buyers have stated that they wouldn't have given it any attention compared to the Audi, VW, Polestar, etc if it didn't have the Mustang name associated with it. If it were an electric Edge as initially developed, they simply wouldn't have looked into it, test drove it, or bought it.

There's at least two of us LONG TIME forum members here with the GT Performance Edition, and they are a blast to drive. I think the only factory Ford with more torque EVER is the newest 6.7 turbo diesel. My GT PE flat out scoots when I mash the throttle. The magnaride suspension makes it a very, very smooth riding vehicle. Is it a Mustang in the traditional sense of the design? Absolutely not. But neither were the 1974's, the 1979-1993's, the 2001's and so on. IMO, some people just like to cry- whether they realize it or not.
Don't make it personal, and don't mistake strong opinion for crying.
 

Ludachris

Chris
Staff member
Moderator
1,658
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HPDE
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5-10 Years
Newcastle, CA
I'm on a Mach-E forum and you'd be surprised at how many people ended up buying one at least partially due to the name. A LOT of buyers have stated that they wouldn't have given it any attention compared to the Audi, VW, Polestar, etc if it didn't have the Mustang name associated with it. If it were an electric Edge as initially developed, they simply wouldn't have looked into it, test drove it, or bought it.

There's at least two of us LONG TIME forum members here with the GT Performance Edition, and they are a blast to drive. I think the only factory Ford with more torque EVER is the newest 6.7 turbo diesel. My GT PE flat out scoots when I mash the throttle. The magnaride suspension makes it a very, very smooth riding vehicle. Is it a Mustang in the traditional sense of the design? Absolutely not. But neither were the 1974's, the 1979-1993's, the 2001's and so on. IMO, some people just like to cry- whether they realize it or not.
That's interesting that Mach-E owners have said that.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
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Blair, Nebraska
I completely understand the passion, it is so unbelievably strong with Mustang owners, and why I am referencing the idea of branding is because it works and I doubted it completely when I was initially selling. I found I had to take off my performance hat , or more specifically my racing hat and view what the buyer was influenced by. Ego wise, we almost have to accept we are the few , the proud, the track rats, and glory in what we love that many others will not attempt or understand, but we have to reason that there is a distinct group of folks with Mustangs ( or Porsches, Vettes, Vipers, etc. ) that simply want to cruise.

That is why I believe so many folks will be attracted to a Mustang EV , as it epitomizes in the buyer's mind a less plebeian EV, and one with more excitement. No surprise to me that the name attracts, but since I find it hard not to keep in touch with my old Dealership Group ( Woodhouse Auto Family ) the Mgr's at the three Ford stores tell me the reason many seem interested in an EV is because it is a Mustang.

Congrats to Fat Boss , as the GT is a runner and for those that like speed , it is a option preferred if one wants to go electric, imho.

Surprisingly I am not ready yet, but I understand the changing atmosphere and I imagine my wife's next vehicle will be a Hybrid. One of the best things posted , of late, for many concerned about the future, is that Ford thinks they will be 40% Electric by 2030 -----I am just a silly optimist since that means 60% will likely be petroleum fueled!
 
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TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
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10-20 Years
Illinois
The question becomes, "How many buyers of the Mach E are buying them BECAUSE of the Mustang brand." Very few, I expect.
Not sure I agree. My daughter drove Mustangs and moved to a Focus RS. Yep. Daddy's girl. When the RS is paid off she will be buying a second car.....you guessed it, a Mustang EV. She loves the RS for the power, braking, handling etc.. She misses the Mustang. She sees the EV Mustang as a Mustang. She's a 20 something which is where the market will be soon if its not already there. Will I ever own a Mustang EV? Hard to say. My list of fun cars still have a few purchases left to make. If I make the move to Solar panels on the house, looking hard at that one right now, the EV Mustang will move up the list. A GT no doubt.
Am I pissed off at Ford for calling their EV a Mustang, nope. I lived through the "Mustang II" years and seemed to survive well enough. At least this time they did so while also offering several Kick Ass Mustangs.
So to answer the question above. Every single one of my kids are buying the EV Mustang because of the brand.
 
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I just picked up a copy of Road and Track in the Atlanta airport, they sure are sucking the EV gas pipe because the WHOLE mag is dedicated to pushing the EV narrative. This is why I miss Car and Driver, Pat Bedard, Brock Yates and other who would surely speak out on this as they did the idiotic 55 mph speed limit of the 70s, the intervention of NHTSA into the car business and other federal atrocities committed over the years to the auto industry.
Not to worry, collapsing the US auto industry, putting all the employees of the US oil and gas industries on unemployment, and making the US beholden to other country's for energy sources while we are all plugged into a system racked with rolling brownouts, and over rated and non producing "renewable" energy sources is really a very small price to pay for reducing the temperature by 1 degree in 50 years.
 

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