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Base S550 brake upgrade ABS programming

62
34
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Cantley
2019 base GT with basic suspension and cradle mods for HPDE. I installed the 6 piston Brembos with Hawk DTC 70 front and 60 back. I understand I need to change the master cylinder for the car to brake properly. I read and re-read Terry's thread on his red 2018. Beyond the master cylinder, from what I read elsewhere on the internet it looks like I also need to:
1- change the ABS module to a PP2 abs module (for the 305 tires)?
Or
2-get someone who knows what they are doing to enter different ABS programming in my existing base GT abs module? If that's the case is there a recipe for this?
Or
3-don't worry about abs programming, the master cylinder swap will fix 99% of the issues I face at my junior level of experience?
Thanks for your expertise, see attached pic for reference
J

Screenshot_20211118-082754_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,301
1,181
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W2W Racing
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20+ Years
halfway between Mosport and Shannonville
I take things written about cars by auto journalists with a ton of salt. I raced against a well known journalist back in the day and he was truly not a good, or even mediocre track driver, he ran well off the pace. He also wrote off a car or two in locally well known incidents. I suspect they take their cues about a car from the manufacturer and that's about it. I know there were some good ones too though. But just because a journalist wrote something about a car is not a reason to take it as gospel.
 
I would start with confirming that PP2 actually has a different ABS module - my 5 minute check at Levittown's website tells me every model including mighty GT500 has the same module and whoever wrote that article made discovery that SC2s brake better than PS4S....

There is a Ford Performance module from FP-350S but I don't think anyone actually seen it available (TeeLew was looking for it I believe).

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-2353-D

P/N isn't very different than S197 aftermarket module, would be interesting to ask FP what the difference is.
 
82
50
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
Ya, I dug all over for that ABS controller, but I couldn't come up with anything. It might just be an S197 thing. I did check out the GT4, but that has the Bosch racing system, which is awesome, but I don't have an extra $12k burning a hole in my pocket.

In the end, I took a SWAG. I bought the manifold/controller off a wrecked GT500 CFTP. I have no idea if it will even play with my car, but I'm going to find out.

For the record, why I want to change the ABS controller is that I feel if I try to carry the brakes into the corner at all (in an attempt to keep load forward in the car), then the brakes start to fight me. My guess is that the airbags work best when a collision is head-on. When you have any brake applied in a high G corner, I think the ABS just assumes you're crashing. Once it's decided you're crashing, then it does what it can to straighten the car out to make a straight impact. It purposefully points the nose to the outside of the corner. The alternative is that the controller is just not set up in a way which allows enough of a speed differential across the rear axle, so it brakes the outside rear tire harder than the inside rear, which imparts an understeering moment to the car. A calibrator would do this is improve braking stability at the expense of the ability to trail brake. I'm hoping the Shelby controller is biased in the other direction.
 
1,012
947
In the V6L
Back when I did some checking in 2019, at that time, 2015 through 2018 S550 ABS/AdvanceTrak controllers were the same mechanics and electronics with model-specific software in each model. I haven't done any digging since, so there may be a new module now. In any event, new replacement modules come through the spare parts supply chain unprogrammed. The installer sticks it into an S550 and programs it with the VIN and the version using the normal new-module installation process that dealer service techs do all the time.

There is no way to undo the VIN lock between the software version and the vehicle identity, so just bunging in a module from the car you'd like yours to handle like won't get you anywhere.
 
Back when I did some checking in 2019, at that time, 2015 through 2018 S550 ABS/AdvanceTrak controllers were the same mechanics and electronics with model-specific software in each model. I haven't done any digging since, so there may be a new module now. In any event, new replacement modules come through the spare parts supply chain unprogrammed. The installer sticks it into an S550 and programs it with the VIN and the version using the normal new-module installation process that dealer service techs do all the time.

There is no way to undo the VIN lock between the software version and the vehicle identity, so just bunging in a module from the car you'd like yours to handle like won't get you anywhere.

You're correct it appears - manual says "2. Using a diagnostic scan tool, complete the PMI process for the ABS module following the on-screen instructions."

I thought they would pre-programmed and have different P/Ns if containing different software. It is consistent with people attempting to use different VDMs on Magride equipped cars (they got an error and it did not work).
 
501
319
sfo
Ya, I dug all over for that ABS controller, but I couldn't come up with anything. It might just be an S197 thing. I did check out the GT4, but that has the Bosch racing system, which is awesome, but I don't have an extra $12k burning a hole in my pocket.

In the end, I took a SWAG. I bought the manifold/controller off a wrecked GT500 CFTP. I have no idea if it will even play with my car, but I'm going to find out.

For the record, why I want to change the ABS controller is that I feel if I try to carry the brakes into the corner at all (in an attempt to keep load forward in the car), then the brakes start to fight me. My guess is that the airbags work best when a collision is head-on. When you have any brake applied in a high G corner, I think the ABS just assumes you're crashing. Once it's decided you're crashing, then it does what it can to straighten the car out to make a straight impact. It purposefully points the nose to the outside of the corner. The alternative is that the controller is just not set up in a way which allows enough of a speed differential across the rear axle, so it brakes the outside rear tire harder than the inside rear, which imparts an understeering moment to the car. A calibrator would do this is improve braking stability at the expense of the ability to trail brake. I'm hoping the Shelby controller is biased in the other direction.
Track forum right? Why not turn all those nannies off so you don't have the traction control dinking the rear brakes etc?
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
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Under 3 Years
San Diego
I had to change both the brake booster and master cylinder to the performance pack editions, and once I did, it was a whole new world of stopping power. (TMO post) (comparison/install)

I'm one of those who've detached the cable under the airbox, so I no longer have any of those annoying functions that ruin a session if you forget to turn them off.

ed: Totally misread it. You could do some computer software hackery using asbuilt, no? You'd have to come up with a valid PP2 VIN, get the asbuilt formulation (asbuilt), and then use something to overwrite and flash, no? The only concern I'd have would be for people such as myself running tunes that I believe use hashes which are calculated both off the VIN and the SCT device serial, and I'd have to go through the mess of going back to stock, doing the VIN flash, then ABS reprogram, then ask/receive a new tune from my tuner, locked to my new VIN, right? That'd suck.
 
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82
50
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
Track forum right? Why not turn all those nannies off so you don't have the traction control dinking the rear brakes etc?

Because you can't. You can turn off the Advance-Trac (which I do), but you can't turn off the ABS and the ABS systems are not all calibrated the same. The ABS has a big influence to chassis balance while braking.
 
501
319
sfo
Because you can't. You can turn off the Advance-Trac (which I do), but you can't turn off the ABS and the ABS systems are not all calibrated the same. The ABS has a big influence to chassis balance while braking.
When the nannies are off the traction control that makes the rear brakes hyperactive is off. All you then have is the base abs programing. Then if you think you are better than ABS you can pull the ABS fuse and go all manual. The ABS is a computer proportioning valve so if you don't like the manual balance you can then add a proportioning valve and or mess with rear axle vs front axle pad compound. Even chassis rake and presence of aero (rear wing) effect the brake balance.

I have it on good authority that the fp350s controler works great in the s550 streetcars. It is said to be the cat's meow. I'm just too cheap to buy it. I know...it's just another set of tires...
 
82
50
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
When the nannies are off the traction control that makes the rear brakes hyperactive is off. All you then have is the base abs programing. Then if you think you are better than ABS you can pull the ABS fuse and go all manual. The ABS is a computer proportioning valve so if you don't like the manual balance you can then add a proportioning valve and or mess with rear axle vs front axle pad compound. Even chassis rake and presence of aero (rear wing) effect the brake balance.

I have it on good authority that the fp350s controler works great in the s550 streetcars. It is said to be the cat's meow. I'm just too cheap to buy it. I know...it's just another set of tires..

Even the base ABS programming has to satisfy its algorithms. It doesn't just turn into a passive braking system. Just the fact that it stops tire locking is going to impart certain understeering moments to the chassis because it will be reducing pressure on the inside tires compared to the outside. That's a big deal. Pulling the fuse isn't a great combo because the mechanical system was not originally designed to be run passively. I'm trying to come up with the best combo I can. So far, I haven't seen anywhere to but the FP350S controller. The person I talked to at FP acted like I was inventing it.

The real answer is dual master setup with the Bosch ABS. Like I said, that's not happening.
 
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501
319
sfo
Even the base ABS programming has to satisfy its algorithms. It doesn't just turn into a passive braking system. Just the fact that it stops tire locking is going to impart certain understeering moments to the chassis because it will be reducing pressure on the inside tires compared to the outside. That's a big deal. Pulling the fuse isn't a great combo because the mechanical system was not originally designed to be run passively. I'm trying to come up with the best combo I can. So far, I haven't seen anywhere to but the FP350S controller. The person I talked to at FP acted like I was inventing it.

The real answer is dual master setup with the Bosch ABS. Like I said, that's not happening.

You are correct but it does degenerate down to the typical ABS we all know and love without the extra input of accelerated pad rear in the rear from TC input. Nannies off is the best we can do without more intervention with unknown consequences.

Interestingly, I have never been unhappy with an ABS fuse pulled. Nothing weird happens. I think that is because of safety and lawsuits. The modern brake system is designed to function as well as it can if the ABS fails so no one dies. ABS failure can happen easily with just a wheel sensor damaged sitting out in harm's way. If your ABS light comes on your streetcar brakes normally right up to threshold (extreme on street) braking.

What is that module pp2 fp350s?
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
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NY Metro
I would start with confirming that PP2 actually has a different ABS module - my 5 minute check at Levittown's website tells me every model including mighty GT500 has the same module and whoever wrote that article made discovery that SC2s brake better than PS4S....

There is a Ford Performance module from FP-350S but I don't think anyone actually seen it available (TeeLew was looking for it I believe).

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-2353-D

P/N isn't very different than S197 aftermarket module, would be interesting to ask FP what the difference is.
Any Body Module you buy from Ford for S550 chassis is a blank canvas. You have to have the module as built data uploaded per the VIN. Ford can change that data through IDS and some modules can be updated through ForScan. That is why the service part numbers are the same.
 
82
50
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
Any Body Module you buy from Ford for S550 chassis is a blank canvas. You have to have the module as built data uploaded per the VIN. Ford can change that data through IDS and some modules can be updated through ForScan. That is why the service part numbers are the same.

Interesting. So would you guess that the Shelby brake controller probably won't play nice with my car? If it doesn't, where does that leave me? Can I either make it work (ForScan or whatever) or reprogram my existing controller for a more track-oriented calibration? The second option sounds like the best, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
427
556
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Under 3 Years
San Diego
For sure there will be DTC’s related to vin mismatch, but those supposedly do not keep the ABS from working properly.
to my understanding, as built coding will trump the VIN... or rather, if you get somebody with a valid PP2 and you put it into the motorcraft as built decoder, pull the abs module code off of that, and enter/flash it over yours, you should be fine. Then you don't have to worry about all the other things like your PCM throwing DTC's, or your fancy Sync losing out the nav and all that stuff.

I will be testing this idea out at ACS and Buttonwillow next month to be 100% sure, since I have a base model GT, but the PP2 BB+MC, and sticky tires, I'll put it through its paces and report back. My PP2 friend loaned me their vin, so, here goes nothing.
 

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