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Best Suspension Setup for Daytona

Navyrugger09

TMO Intermediate
18
4
Yulee, FL
I am going to the TNIA event at Daytona. This is my first track event since I upgraded my suspension to koni yellows, eibach prolines and bmr adjustable sway bars. What is the best setting for the shocks and sway bars? Right now I have the konis in the middle and the Sway bars in the middle hole.
 

blacksheep-1

TMO Addict
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1,873
Make sure you have plenty of suspension travel, and if it bottoms out it does so gently. This is more of a spring track than a shock track, since the shocks control the spring, but on the bank it's the spring (or the bumper) that ultimately holds the car up.
 

docs302

TMO Addict
517
307
Philly
Blacksheep.......any suggestions for camber? I have had to bump by camber down on some mildly banked tracks so I would have to think it would be fairly significant with this track.
 

blacksheep-1

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I don't recall what we ran on the mustangs, but I want to say 3 or 3 plus, that bank is not as bad as the one at Homestead, which is the real problem child.
 

Sjohnson1800

TMO Intermediate
26
14
Wisconsin
I’ve never been to Daytona but at the Milwaukee mile (a very mild bank) I have my Steeda adjustable bars set at front middle hole rear back hol(softest) then for the Koni yellows I have the front ma turned all they way up then back then off about a 1/8 of a turn and the rears I at 1/4 turn from full soft I’m also using FRPP k springs. This seems to work for me but the MKE mile isn’t a super banked track hope this helps
 

bob

TMO Intermediate
94
59
sfo
Well I'm from Cali but I have raced daytona several times SCCA T2 trim in vettes so 3525lbs minimum + restrictor plated. My S550 now in T2 trim is equalized at 3600lb minimum + restrictor plate so I expect to run about the same speeds and forces on the tires when I get my S550 to Daytona next year.

TINA is a fun event. I would just make sure the car is in good shape and well teched. Pay attention to tire pressures and work up to speed. Have a good hard look at your tires and their speed rating and condition. Daytona is not the place to squeeze one more trackday out of your old tires. Our max speeds were about 165 front straight and 150 on banking with less than stock power but also less weight and lowered about 2" so I suspect a street mustang with full power but less chassis development could be close to those speeds with similar driver. 150 on the banking puts lots of stress on the tires. To me that's the only concern there.
 

blacksheep-1

TMO Addict
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Here's AJ in a T1 car, it no doubt has more power and aero than your car, but, depending on your aero the top speeds may be similar. I think we tried to take all the aero off the car to see what would happen and there was no future in that..lol.
A couple of take aways here, he seems to short shift going up onto the bank, and he gets moat of his downshifting done before the bust stop not in it (he looks like he hangs one on the little short part, but he doesn't do the heel n toe song and dance, he just gets it done. The other thing is that traffic come sup fast. I've seen more cars torn up in the infield kink than in the bus stop, but the bus stop is definitely #2 for trashing cars, where the kink is usually fairly benign.
It's funny but I don't think the new spec GT4 cars are any faster than the old IMSA Grand Am spec cars, that's with all the restrictions, an unrestricted GT4 might be a bit faster.
 

docs302

TMO Addict
517
307
Philly
Reading the Hoosier A7/R7 recommendations they say no more than 2.0 negative camber on banked ovals and road courses. Why they use Watkins Glen as an example I don't know. I'm scheduled for the Charlotte Roval in Sept and I was planning on bringing a new set of the old IMSA Conti's and a scrubbed set of BFG R1S tires. I want to make sure I don't trash them with the wrong alignment.
 

blacksheep-1

TMO Addict
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To be honest, I'd say that those are on the "safe side" by a large margin. Hoosier is always on our/my case about pressures and car setup, but by all means use them, they are conservative, and that is what works for most HPDE guys at Daytona.
You'll stay out of trouble that way
 

Navyrugger09

TMO Intermediate
18
4
Yulee, FL
I’ve never been to Daytona but at the Milwaukee mile (a very mild bank) I have my Steeda adjustable bars set at front middle hole rear back hol(softest) then for the Koni yellows I have the front ma turned all they way up then back then off about a 1/8 of a turn and the rears I at 1/4 turn from full soft I’m also using FRPP k springs. This seems to work for me but the MKE mile isn’t a super banked track hope this helps
Thanks for the insight! Why softer in the back than the front? I am experimenting for the first time and am not sure of the pros/cons which is why I have the yellows and sway bars in the middle for both so I can adjust them in either direction
 

Navyrugger09

TMO Intermediate
18
4
Yulee, FL
The TNIA just got cancelled due to COVID :mad:
My next event is now the FIRM- a very different track and my most familiar one. Any thoughts on suspension setup for this much more technical track?
 

bob

TMO Intermediate
94
59
sfo
The TNIA just got cancelled due to COVID :mad:
My next event is now the FIRM- a very different track and my most familiar one. Any thoughts on suspension setup for this much more technical track?
Damn!! We got big cv19 out west. I plan to be racing laguna seca scca regional race. I don't think we will be canceled. Our gov keeps talking but no one is listening!

Well home track you should know how your car responds. Go out like normal and feel for weirdness. I think of tires, ride height and springs making biggest changes. I think of tire pressures , bars (depending on your theory) and shocks as tuning. You are just going to have to feel it. Testing is costly and time consuming. You need to start on good tires (really new imo) and need to run consistent laptimes to test the settings. Sometimes something does not feel good but makes good times.
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
30
29
Connecticut
Autocross
20+ Years
I just realized you have an s550 sorry I have a S197 so setup is probably different but softer in the rear helps the car rotate and give you a little more oversteer.
Wait, softer shocks or sway bars? I think the question was about sway bars. Softer in the rear (and this is all relative) tends to understeer, not oversteer. It gives you a more secure feeling at the higher speeds at Daytona. It may also let you get to the to the throttle sooner on corner exit, so you can carry more speed all the way down the long straights. And it shouldn't matter if it's IRS or stick axle - sway bars work the same.
 

docs302

TMO Addict
517
307
Philly
Dave W is correct.....at least with my understanding and experience. I have experimented with three different sized rear sway bars all the way down to 18mm and now run without any bar. The resulting increased rear grip has improved my corner exit confidence and speed and my personal best lap times are dropping. The trade off is a less responsive front end. So I'm now playing with tire pressures and front/rear shock rebound and compression ( JRi DA coilovers) to see if I can improve the front grip at turn in and mid corner where I feel the car is slipping. Shock and spring tuning is definitely foreign to me so I'm reading everything I can find about this black art. I run a Strano 32mm front swaybar in the middle hole and that's where it stays. I guess I can also play with that as well but one change at a time.
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
30
29
Connecticut
Autocross
20+ Years
There could be a few causes and different solutions to feeling the front end "slipping" in turn-in & mid-corner, or understeer. You could stiffen the low-speed compression on the front shocks to provide more "support" for the front of the car in turn-in and transitions. This won't change actual grip as much as it changes driver feel. Based on how the JRi are built, you may or may not be able to adjust LSC. The tire may also be "skipping" across small bumps and losing traction. There are 2 variations on this, each with a different shock adjustment. If the wheel/tire is being "launched" off the top of the bump, increase high-speed compression. If the wheel/tire is being "held up" and not able to follow the back side of the bump, softening the high-speed rebound (or overall rebound) will let the wheel back down faster. But rebound that is much too soft leads to under-damping and the spring oscillating the wheel/tire (think blown shock). Lastly, you could try stiffening the front bar to give a more "crisp" turn-in feel, but it will likely cause more understeer mid-corner.

There are also 2 things you may try just in driving style. If you're coming off the brakes too quickly and/or early, it removes the weight transfer on the front tires that had happened under braking. With less vertical load, the front tires have less grip. This is why trail-braking is so important, but must be done smoothly to optimize the change from longitudinal to lateral grip for the tires. There's actually another thread talking about that now. The other thing is to make sure you're not over-driving the corner entry (probably not, but want to say it to be complete for novice readers); try braking a bit more/earlier instead of being the last of the late-brakers. Corner exit is more important than corner entry (from Jackie Stewart teaching James May).
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
So I'm now playing with tire pressures and front/rear shock rebound and compression ( JRi DA coilovers) to see if I can improve the front grip at turn in and mid corner where I feel the car is slipping.
Are those MM or CorteX units?

With the rear bar out, I think your challenge will be to slow the lateral transfer in the front. Softening either front spring or bar will likely necessitate other changes...
 

docs302

TMO Addict
517
307
Philly
Are those MM or CorteX units?
They are the Cortex units. Curing understeer at initial turn in and mid corner is my goal. Softening front compression was recommended as well as decreasing rear rebound to transfer weight faster to the front and rotate the car. My concern with that would be more front compression and rear lift and movement under heavy braking. I definitely need to compensate at the front for the missing rear bar. It's easy to just put a bar back in but I would love to keep the rear compliance and grip I have with no bar and still have the front end respond......like having my cake and eating it too!
 

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