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Boss 302 consumables new strategy

If I ended up keeping the Boss, I will need to change my strategy about consumable, since I am not racing, I would not need top of the line brake pads and rotors + fluids
I am looking for opinions regarding:

1) brake pads that are the same or slightly better than the OEM that can last longer than a typical race pads

2) brake fluid that does not need to be changed frequently but still DOT 4 or above

Other suggestions are welcome
Thanks
 
Let me show you what happened to the Pagids RS-29 after only 3 track days ( 2 on Rivals and 1 on stock tires)

1ygg.jpg



srzb.jpg


Yes they stopped on the dime, but boy they evaporate ;D
 
13Boss#3328 said:
Let me show you what happened to the Pagids RS-29 after only 3 track days ( 2 on Rivals and 1 on stock tires)

1ygg.jpg



srzb.jpg


Yes they stopped on the dime, but boy they evaporate ;D

Yep, that's about right. My Pagid RST2s wear at about the same rate.... might get 1.5 weekends of HPDE out of a set, maybe 2 if I'm lucky. Other brands of race-compound pads will wear at roughly those rates, too, depending on one's braking style and other factors.

As you point out, our Bosses are not cheap to run as track cars, especially regarding consumable items like tires and brakes. This is the result, essentially, of the combination of a relatively heavy car with high horsepower.

Sorry, but it is what it is, not that that helps any.
 
The stock pads last significantly longer, I had 9 track days on them last year and they have slightly more than 1/3 of the thickness left! Yes they do not stop as good and they fade too, but unless you are racing they are fine especially on sticky tires like the rivals.
Do you have any idea what other aftermarket pads are like the stocks?
 
Wow I've been getting 5-6 days on the RS-29's and that includes street driving in between track days.

To answer the OP's question:

Centric blank rotors.
Hawk HP+ pads. They will make some noise on the street and won't last any longer but are quite a bit less than the Pagid's and other race pads.
ATE Blue/200 brake fluid.

Are cars aren't expensive to run on track but aren't cheap either. I'd put a Porsche in the expensive category and Ferrari's in the uber expensive category. ;)
 
NFSBOSS said:
Are cars aren't expensive to run on track but aren't cheap either. I'd put a Porsche in the expensive category and Ferrari's in the uber expensive category. ;)

I had a '96 Porsche 993 C2 that I tracked in PCA DEs for several years, and don't recall that it was any more costly than my Boss as a track car. It was a little easier on tires and brake pads (of course, rear tire wear was the issue on that car, but tires would still last longer overall), but it had something like 160 less horsepower and weighted about 400 lbs less than the Boss. But, yes, cost is relative, I agree.

To a Boss owner of average means, though, say $1000-$1200 for a set of tires (yes, one can buy $125 scrub race tires as a much cheaper alternative) that may only last a few track weekends, $300 race pads and whatever rotors or other items you might want or need replaced every third or fourth track weekend (or however often these things need replaced)...it all adds up pretty quickly. And that's not counting the HPDE entry fees, plus gas costs of the weekend, plus any travel & lodging costs to get there & back if it's an out of town event.

Like anything, it comes down to each individual's priorities and what one wants to spend their money on. Only each person can determine that individually.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
If I was going to try to reduce the amount of flushing and changes, I'd try SRF. If I was going cheap and still do frequent changes and bleeding, I'd go to an off the shelf DOT4 like Prestone.

Centric blanks are about as cheap as you can get with rotors, but you might find cheaper at AutoZone or your local parts store.

If you're really hard on the brakes, I'm not sure a pad that's easy on wear and rotors will be to your liking. Or start diving more of a momentum line and go easier on the brakes.

Maybe drive shorter/slower tracks, if that's an option.
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
13Boss#3328 said:
Let me show you what happened to the Pagids RS-29 after only 3 track days ( 2 on Rivals and 1 on stock tires)

1ygg.jpg



srzb.jpg


Yes they stopped on the dime, but boy they evaporate ;D

If that is 3 track days, then you need to find a better track pad <or> get a coach to work on your braking technique. Seriously... not joking.
 
You can't fight physics, period. That's why Miatas are cheap to run.

You will not find a pad that will markedly reduce your costs. If you are using your brakes correctly, you are going to get 3 days out of a set of fronts with just enough pad to get home, but not enough that you'd be comfortable going out for a fourth day. Plus, do you want to use inferior tools for the job when the result could be a wall?

Brake fluid-wise there is more room to save. You don't need that crazy $100/bottle stuff, or even Motul. ATE at 13 bucks a can will work fine if you change fluid before every weekend and perhaps bleed between days.
 
I met someone at the track that would set a $5k budget a year for tracking, which included everything from entry fees to maintenance and unexpected parts. Once the limit is reached, he would stop for the year. I'm going to take this budget approach myself, but so far I've failed lol.

So I say set a budget, try different pads until you find one that works for you. For me, carbotech XP12/10 combo seems to work fine and last 3-4 weekends (fronts, rears haven't worn much yet).

As far as rotor, someone had posted a link to OEM rotors on Amazon, which were priced reasonably.

And for fluid, you could go cheap and change frequently, or go SRF and change less frequently. Currently, I use ATE, because I can source it locally for under $14/bottle.
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
F.D. Sako said:
I met someone at the track that would set a $5k budget a year for tracking, which included everything from entry fees to maintenance and unexpected parts. Once the limit is reached, he would stop for the year. I'm going to take this budget approach myself, but so far I've failed lol.

I don't go to that level, but I do budget for tires... which is essentially the same thing. 3-4 sets of tires per year... then I'm either done, or running on crap rubber ;)

As far as rotor, someone had posted a link to OEM rotors on Amazon, which were priced reasonably.
Many guys are running Centric rotors. I went and visited my local Ford dealer and talked him into giving me a break on parts since I'm tracking the Boss. I just bought OEM GT500 rear rotors from him (Motorcraft) for $72/ea (I'm going to the 14" rotors in back). Fronts are around $65/ea through him.

And for fluid, you could go cheap and change frequently, or go SRF and change less frequently. Currently, I use ATE, because I can source it locally for under $14/bottle.

I use ATE, and buy 6-12 cans at a time. Cost goes down when you buy in bulk.

Lots of creative ways to save money on this hobby. Google and other racers are your friends in this area!
 
745
352
I really do not understand the wear rate. I ran a single set of rs-29 pads for most of last year, or about 10 -12 track days and still have 1/3 left.

I have also run RST-2 pads this year and have 50% left after four days.

While i well I am not the fastest on the track, I'm not the slowest either.

I think there is something with driving style that is destroying your pads.
 

Senderofan

Having more fun than should be allowed..in my Boss
2012-Boss said:
I really do not understand the wear rate. I ran a single set of rs-29 pads for most of last year, or about 10 -12 track days and still have 1/3 left.

I have also run RST-2 pads this year and have 50% left after four days.

While i well I am not the fastest on the track, I'm not the slowest either.

I think there is something with driving style that is destroying your pads.

I think Mr. Scheier has the talent and ability to drive the Boss at 10 /10ths, perhaps 11, and it shows in the brake pads. I think we forget how heavy our cars truly are....they seem fairly nimble and have decent brakes....but the pads tell "The rest of the story." Wish I was talented / skilled enough to worry about this ;). But..hey...we can still have fun while we practice.


Wayne
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
Senderofan said:
I think Mr. Scheier has the talent and ability to drive the Boss at 10 /10ths, perhaps 11, and it shows in the brake pads.

Man, another comedian ;)

Lots of things can be contributing here:

1. if you use traction control (full or 'sport'), the system will absolutely eat your rear pads in no time at all. I had a student last weekend that ran TC the second day (when I wasn't in the car). Not only was he slower, he effectively ran the pads (OEM) down to the backing plates in 4 sessions. The rear rotors were blue and I'm willing to bet that the rubber seals on the calipers were probably shot as well

2. Take a look at the pads in the photo. How old were these? Note the paint / rust. I'm guessing this car doesn't sit out in the elements, and that the pads are fairly new (OP says 3 track days). Paint and rust is probably due to excess heat which would lead me to believe that either a) TC was on and killed the pads or b) they truly were out of their effective heat range and that roasted them.

3. the only other thing I can think of is that the pads (somehow) were not properly installed (ie: screwing in the pistons) and that lead to excessive dragging resulting in excessive heat.

Three track days out of a set of rear pads... that's just bad juju.
 
JScheier said:
Man, another comedian ;)

Lots of things can be contributing here:

1. if you use traction control (full or 'sport'), the system will absolutely eat your rear pads in no time at all. I had a student last weekend that ran TC the second day (when I wasn't in the car). Not only was he slower, he effectively ran the pads (OEM) down to the backing plates in 4 sessions. The rear rotors were blue and I'm willing to bet that the rubber seals on the calipers were probably shot as well

2. Take a look at the pads in the photo. How old were these? Note the paint / rust. I'm guessing this car doesn't sit out in the elements, and that the pads are fairly new (OP says 3 track days). Paint and rust is probably due to excess heat which would lead me to believe that either a) TC was on and killed the pads or b) they truly were out of their effective heat range and that roasted them.

3. the only other thing I can think of is that the pads (somehow) were not properly installed (ie: screwing in the pistons) and that lead to excessive dragging resulting in excessive heat.

Three track days out of a set of rear pads... that's just bad juju.

The traction control and stability control are always completely off on the track.
The pads are front ones not the rear.
I think the installation was ok because everything went smooth as instructed and the pads worked great on the track.

I am thinking the wear rate has to do with my driving style, I never cruise, I accelerate and keep accelerating until I hit the brakes, usually late and hard then turn.
I think I will have to change something in my driving style, I am glad that people are getting longer use of their pads, that means it is my fault which is treatable.

Can you please share your technique with us so I can learn?

Thanks
 
I don't have the vast experience of most of the other users here in tracking the Boss - actually only up to the third full day with it, but also have only had it for a few months too. I'm using the Pagid RST2 with Rivals and have slightly more than a 1/3 left on the fronts, but I'm also still getting use to the car. I do have a fair amount of track experience though (Barber as well) and have progressed into being an instructor over the last 10 yrs or so. No one can analyze your technique without being in the right seat (unless you have some great telemetry ) - deceleration/braking point/initial brake pressure/turn in/trail brake/brake release are all critical elements of not only your concern of pad wear but also how quickly you get around the track, I think we all know that but how is another story.

One thing you can do on your own, (it seems like you know your driving style pretty well) is read a book - this book: Going Faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving (on Amazon). It's very comprehensive and relays the technical aspects in a real world format. For 25 bucks it's the most bang for your buck to improve your skills because you read it, think it and then try it - not like having an instructor but it makes you think rather than react- my two cents anyway.
 
Viper1mx said:
I don't have the vast experience of most of the other users here in tracking the Boss - actually only up to the third full day with it, but also have only had it for a few months too. I'm using the Pagid RST2 with Rivals and have slightly more than a 1/3 left on the fronts, but I'm also still getting use to the car. I do have a fair amount of track experience though (Barber as well) and have progressed into being an instructor over the last 10 yrs or so. No one can analyze your technique without being in the right seat (unless you have some great telemetry ) - deceleration/braking point/initial brake pressure/turn in/trail brake/brake release are all critical elements of not only your concern of pad wear but also how quickly you get around the track, I think we all know that but how is another story.

One thing you can do on your own, (it seems like you know your driving style pretty well) is read a book - this book: Going Faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving (on Amazon). It's very comprehensive and relays the technical aspects in a real world format. For 25 bucks it's the most bang for your buck to improve your skills because you read it, think it and then try it - not like having an instructor but it makes you think rather than react- my two cents anyway.
It is a great book, I got the book 2 years ago and I have gone over the fundamental chapters more than 3 times. As said before I need more seat time and instructions.
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
13Boss#3328 said:
The traction control and stability control are always completely off on the track.
The pads are front ones not the rear.....

Man... so sorry. I've had rear brakes on my mind (just upgraded the rear of mine to GT500)... total brain fart on my part.

I am thinking the wear rate has to do with my driving style, I never cruise, I accelerate and keep accelerating until I hit the brakes, usually late and hard then turn.

Braking technique is one of the hardest things to change. People are set in the way they do it, they get comfortable with it, and it's really hard to get it into their head from the passenger seat. What I usually do is go out for a session or two with a student and see what they are doing. If braking is something we need to work on, we hop in my car (I rarely drive a student's car) and I demonstrate what I want to see / have them try. It's hard to see someone's feet at work... so it's definitely a 'feel' type of learning. Honestly, I learned how to brake by driving a non-ABS car (actually, it was an 86GT that had ABS, but I could turn it off on the dash). Threshold braking gets you that 'feel' really quickly... or else you are out of tire money pretty quickly :)

I think I will have to change something in my driving style, I am glad that people are getting longer use of their pads, that means it is my fault which is treatable. Can you please share your technique with us so I can learn?

You may be right on your driving style comment, but I still think those pads were operating way out of their effective range. Your technique may have contributed to that, but I'd go with a higher temp range pad for longevity... use them to work on your technique and you should be golden. You can always step back down a compound once you feel your braking is improved.

So, what do I teach? I want you on the brakes quickly, but smoothly with firm, not abrupt pressure (aka: Don't stab!). Student last weekend would stab the brakes so hard that I swear the rear tires were coming off the ground. That's not good.

The whole purpose of braking is to? Slow the car in preparation for a turn. You want to slow the car, but you also want to transfer weight to the front tires so that they can do their job more effectively. If you really hammer the brakes, you end up over-loading the front tires and unloading the rear. Makes it hard to turn and accelerate.

Smooth but purposeful onto the brakes, smooth and purposeful off the brakes. Same with the throttle.

I hope that helps. There are some good tutorials on-line, but again, without actually 'feeling' what it is the instructor wants, it can be difficult to pick up.
 

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