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S197 Boss 302 in Chile Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
369
351
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
I sprung up to support the wing but ended up springing back down due to the extra over steer the stiffer rear springs induced
So I've been thinking about a crazy idea - a poor man's third spring. You add an arm to the center of the rear sway bar, and use that to push against a long bumpstop on the body as the rear wing loads the suspension. That keeps the suspension squat from aero load under control, without changing the roll or rear droop compliance so your braking and turning is unaffected. Power-on squat may be affected, depending on the engagement point of the center bumpstop, but probably not nearly as much as using stiffer springs.
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
369
351
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
Another option is a Z-bar - as typically used on Formula Vees and other swing-arm suspensions. It's like a sway bar, but the arms are bent in different directions, so it looks like a Z instead of a C. This results in an item that provides bump/heave stiffness with zero roll resistance.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,889
2,385
Santiago, Chile
So I've been thinking about a crazy idea - a poor man's third spring. You add an arm to the center of the rear sway bar, and use that to push against a long bumpstop on the body as the rear wing loads the suspension. That keeps the suspension squat from aero load under control, without changing the roll or rear droop compliance so your braking and turning is unaffected. Power-on squat may be affected, depending on the engagement point of the center bumpstop, but probably not nearly as much as using stiffer springs.
Interesting, have been with out a rear sway bar for a while (took a little getting used to).
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,889
2,385
Santiago, Chile
Well days are scooting by and race day is this coming this Sunday. Its a holiday month so lots of drivers are on vacation outside of Chile. I have 6 hoosier R7s left with enough meat to get me through the day. I hope!! Next race will try the Zestino slicks out and have a new set of R7s to play with as well.

This time around we only have about 15 cars lined up and only 3 of them are Cayman gt4 cars,. But still want to leave them behind if posible. Changed the front hubs and ARP studs since they have been on for while now.

Hope we fixed a problem with drive line vibration. Lowering the engine ment that the pinion angles were off and forgot to check. the front of the engine goes down but the rear tranny brace tilts the end up. Left the angle at 1.5 degrees from parallel since we removed some of the sphericals and replaced them with polys.

This time will fill the gas tank 3/4 to make sure I dont run out of gas again.... What a crappy way to loose a race. thinking in the future about fuel cells. But running in the the 3 hour enduro is a bit of a problem. The car goes through 50L of fuel in 30min, so would need 100L tank. Noticed the GT4 Clubsports come with a 120L fuel cell. The easy way would be to do what I did before. Add a external tank and with a electric pump to refill the OEM fuel tanks.

My competitor with the supercharged M3, got is big Wang just in time..(9 lives wing). He took it to his BMW shop and they said its too big and ugly to install... But my luck held and he put it on anyway. Now he should be down a bit on the straights , my evil plan worked :p..

But in truth, am a big fan of my wing. Its one of my favorite upgrades so far, it made the car is so much easier to drive.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
5,564
4,098
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Ran low on gas twice last year, lost both races and I still had 3-5 gallons in the tank. The goofy saddle tank in the Stangs starves on really big, fast sweepers so I would fill it up. My problem was fuel was still in there but the car went into limp mode thinking the cutting out was an issue. Fuel cell installed now and no starvation!!
 
4,286
3,853
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Ran low on gas twice last year, lost both races and I still had 3-5 gallons in the tank. The goofy saddle tank in the Stangs starves on really big, fast sweepers so I would fill it up. My problem was fuel was still in there but the car went into limp mode thinking the cutting out was an issue. Fuel cell installed now and no starvation!!
Did you do a saddle type fuel cell or did you mount one in the rear like mine?
 
3,669
3,534
So I've been thinking about a crazy idea - a poor man's third spring. You add an arm to the center of the rear sway bar, and use that to push against a long bumpstop on the body as the rear wing loads the suspension. That keeps the suspension squat from aero load under control, without changing the roll or rear droop compliance so your braking and turning is unaffected. Power-on squat may be affected, depending on the engagement point of the center bumpstop, but probably not nearly as much as using stiffer springs.
or a Jacob's Ladder, but I think our cars are too heavy for one of those, you might want to google (or better DuckDuckGo) some late model dirt track stuff for some real crazy ideas.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,889
2,385
Santiago, Chile
Ye gads.. the stress. my trusty mechanic called to say that the car can not run tomorrow because the vibration was still present. Went to see the car and found that the spherical UCA (third one, and last one) had a tiny bit of play.... Changed it and the car ran fine at 145mph. So we are on for tomorrow!!

Talking about weird ideas... this is a front suspension mode of my buddies Nitro S197.....

1632596702772.png
 
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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,889
2,385
Santiago, Chile
Actually, thinking about it, have been removing all the spherical suspension goodies and replacing with poly for a while now.. the only one left is the Stock ford A-arms that are on bearings but they seem to be fine so far.
 
Last edited:
4,286
3,853
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Ye gads.. the stress. my trusty mechanic called to say that the car can not run tomorrow because the vibration was still present. Went to see the car and found that the spherical UCA (third one, and last one) had a tiny bit of play.... Changed it and the car ran fine at 145mph. So we are on for tomorrow!!

Talking about weird ideas... this is a front suspension mode of my buddies Nitro S197.....

View attachment 68841
what is that....a shock on the sway bar?
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
369
351
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
To slow the roll rate.
That may be the thinking, but since it's attached to the sway bar arm, which is solidly attached to the strut & knuckle via the endlink, I think it's just adding extra damping to any wheel movement. It is getting a slight motion ratio multiplier by being attached further out on the swaybar arm than the endlink.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
5,564
4,098
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Likely the shock on the sway bar is because the Earth's rotation seems backwards in South America and this helps it sway the correct way in North America ------ just saying we are right side up, ha.
 
4,286
3,853
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
That may be the thinking, but since it's attached to the sway bar arm, which is solidly attached to the strut & knuckle via the endlink, I think it's just adding extra damping to any wheel movement. It is getting a slight motion ratio multiplier by being attached further out on the swaybar arm than the endlink.
Exactly
 

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