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Boss cooling issues?

144
0
MA
Guys,

I'm new here, but I wanted to raise the subject of datalogging coolant temps on our cars. I've noticed that there are some members who are datalogging with Aeroforce gauges, and they are seeing temps in the 200-210 range when tracking their cars.

Does the Aeroforce gauge read actual "coolant temperature" via a dedicated sender? Or does it tap into the car's PCM for a signal for coolant?

When I was datalogging my 2011 GT with my Procharger and 10 psi, I was curious to know how much temps went down after I installed a Reische Performance 180 degree t-stat. Much to my surpise, during a WOT blast, the temps shot up to 202-208! This happened in literally seconds, it went from a steady 195 to 208 under boost!

I called Procharger to see what their testing revealed. They were no help, they had no clue and simply said that their test car 'never overheated'. I was in dismay!

So I did some more research and discovered that the Coyote ( and I assume the Road Runner is the same) actually reads 'cylinder head temperature', hence the extreme fluctuations and sensitivity in my readings. My point is that the temperature readings I was seeing really weren't all that extreme. Even though I had a 180 degree t-stat, the cylinder head coolant temp sending unit which the factory PCM was using, was seeing the drastic change in temp increase in relation to the boost and load the motor was placed under.

I'm curious if the readings guys are getting for their temperatures are in fact from the PCM in which case its the cylinder head coolant temp, and if so, I'd wonder how necessary cutting up the factory grill really is? Not knocking anyone who has done it, just thinking out loud and no one in my house is listening so here I am, lol. I understand some cars have gone into limp mode due to heat, just curious how it all ties together?
 
You are correct, it reads CHT. The issue is limp mode, red t-stat lights on the dash, reservoir coolant brewing to the rim and popping radiator caps indicate water temps getting too high. These cars do run hot and CHT in the 240s won't go into limp mode. It's somewhere around 254F. My track temps are typically in the 230s and 240s. I have the annunciator set to go off at 245 to give me a heads up. We've also seen the same CHT drop into the 220s when pulling the grille. A friend of mine installed a water temp sender in his 5.0 and was seeing water temps in the 220s and 230s which were the same as his CHTs from his Aeroforce AFTER installing a Roush billet grille. The PCM is setup to go into limp mode based on CHT, not ECT.

Oh and the Boss has a 180* t-stat, but on the road course it really doesn't make any difference if you put in a lower (say 170) temp t-stat. Once you're up to temp it's going to stay well above 180 anyway. It might help a drag or street car to open earlier, but with 20 minute sustained WOT conditions it won't help.
 
144
0
MA
cloud9 said:
You are correct, it reads CHT. The issue is limp mode, red t-stat lights on the dash, reservoir coolant brewing to the rim and popping radiator caps indicate water temps getting too high. These cars do run hot and CHT in the 240s won't go into limp mode. It's somewhere around 254F. My track temps are typically in the 230s and 240s. I have the annunciator set to go off at 245 to give me a heads up. We've also seen the same CHT drop into the 220s when pulling the grille. A friend of mine installed a water temp sender in his 5.0 and was seeing water temps in the 220s and 230s which were the same as his CHTs from his Aeroforce AFTER installing a Roush billet grille. The PCM is setup to go into limp mode based on CHT, not ECT.

Oh and the Boss has a 180* t-stat, but on the road course it really doesn't make any difference if you put in a lower (say 170) temp t-stat. Once you're up to temp it's going to stay well above 180 anyway. It might help a drag or street car to open earlier, but with 20 minute sustained WOT conditions it won't help.

Awesome info right there.

Thank you for setting the record straight for me. Appreciate it!

What would the bare minimum cooling mods, if any, be for say, an HPDE track day where you're only on the track for about 10 minutes or so at a time?
 
SVT1 said:
cloud9 said:
You are correct, it reads CHT. The issue is limp mode, red t-stat lights on the dash, reservoir coolant brewing to the rim and popping radiator caps indicate water temps getting too high. These cars do run hot and CHT in the 240s won't go into limp mode. It's somewhere around 254F. My track temps are typically in the 230s and 240s. I have the annunciator set to go off at 245 to give me a heads up. We've also seen the same CHT drop into the 220s when pulling the grille. A friend of mine installed a water temp sender in his 5.0 and was seeing water temps in the 220s and 230s which were the same as his CHTs from his Aeroforce AFTER installing a Roush billet grille. The PCM is setup to go into limp mode based on CHT, not ECT.

Oh and the Boss has a 180* t-stat, but on the road course it really doesn't make any difference if you put in a lower (say 170) temp t-stat. Once you're up to temp it's going to stay well above 180 anyway. It might help a drag or street car to open earlier, but with 20 minute sustained WOT conditions it won't help.

Awesome info right there.

Thank you for setting the record straight for me. Appreciate it!

What would the bare minimum cooling mods, if any, be for say, an HPDE track day where you're only on the track for about 10 minutes or so at a time?
You shouldn't have any issues in those conditions unless you're at extreme elevation. The cooling issues are only evident when REALLY pushing the car or if you're at 4000+ elevation and pushing it. The worst case scenario is pull the grillle if you do have overheating issues. It's easy and only takes about 10 minutes. After you've reached the point where you have cooling issues, then you should start looking into additional cooling such as a 302S grille, radiator, hood, or an air-to-oil cooler.
 
144
0
MA
cloud9 said:
SVT1 said:
cloud9 said:
You are correct, it reads CHT. The issue is limp mode, red t-stat lights on the dash, reservoir coolant brewing to the rim and popping radiator caps indicate water temps getting too high. These cars do run hot and CHT in the 240s won't go into limp mode. It's somewhere around 254F. My track temps are typically in the 230s and 240s. I have the annunciator set to go off at 245 to give me a heads up. We've also seen the same CHT drop into the 220s when pulling the grille. A friend of mine installed a water temp sender in his 5.0 and was seeing water temps in the 220s and 230s which were the same as his CHTs from his Aeroforce AFTER installing a Roush billet grille. The PCM is setup to go into limp mode based on CHT, not ECT.

Oh and the Boss has a 180* t-stat, but on the road course it really doesn't make any difference if you put in a lower (say 170) temp t-stat. Once you're up to temp it's going to stay well above 180 anyway. It might help a drag or street car to open earlier, but with 20 minute sustained WOT conditions it won't help.

Awesome info right there.

Thank you for setting the record straight for me. Appreciate it!

What would the bare minimum cooling mods, if any, be for say, an HPDE track day where you're only on the track for about 10 minutes or so at a time?
You shouldn't have any issues in those conditions unless you're at extreme elevation. The cooling issues are only evident when REALLY pushing the car or if you're at 4000+ elevation and pushing it. The worst case scenario is pull the grillle if you do have overheating issues. It's easy and only takes about 10 minutes. After you've reached the point where you have cooling issues, then you should start looking into additional cooling such as a 302S grille, radiator, hood, or an air-to-oil cooler.

Nice, thanks for clarifying. This is exactly what I wanted to know.
 
548
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Whoever mentioned in another topic that the cooling issues weren't from the amount of air going in as much as the lack of air going out I think nailed it. Seems to me that, aside from putting on a different heat extracting hood, there should be an easy way to modify the plastic area in front of the windshield wipers to vent air out of the rear of the stock hood. Is there a technical problem with that concept? Anyone heard of anything like that?
 
jimprw said:
Whoever mentioned in another topic that the cooling issues weren't from the amount of air going in as much as the lack of air going out I think nailed it.
I don't agree with that. It's already been well proven the issue is not getting enough air flow into the radiator. Second issue is the additional heat being placed into the cooling system from the stock oil cooler.

Regardless, no matter what environment you're in, if you're going to track your car I'd add a more open grill. The cars run hot regardless if they overheat or not and keeping the water/cylinder head temp cooler is a win.
 
What Drew and Rick said!

Pulling the weatherstrip will do as much as any mods you can make to the cowl. I am not even sure this makes a difference but I did and it along with other mods seems to be working for me.
 
I'd really like to help out here guys, but mother nature won't allow for another 2 months. I'll have a very good idea how much the hood helps after my first track day with 80+F temps. Personally I'm reserving judgement on this issue until I can test it myself in the same conditions I ran in all last year.
 
548
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Gary, Ford agrees with you too. Providing the fog light insert removal capability for the 2013s is definitely proof of that. And, getting more air to the radiator makes sense as making the biggest impact on engine cooling. But heat extraction figures in there somewhere too since the 2013s have vents and the race hoods you guys are putting on deal with that big time. I'll be very interested to see what you find out when you can track again in the spring as to what benefit you get with the hood.
 
I was looking over this issue yesterday and I was wondering if drilling holes in the honeycomb impressions would help. Maybe only doing alternate holes to keep some strength. Depending on how meticulous you are you can also file each hole to the hex shape. I hope somebody responds before Sat. to this because the wife is gone and I normally do dumb things when she is away.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
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Arizona, USA
Hambone said:
I was looking over this issue yesterday and I was wondering if drilling holes in the honeycomb impressions would help. Maybe only doing alternate holes to keep some strength. Depending on how meticulous you are you can also file each hole to the hex shape. I hope somebody responds before Sat. to this because the wife is gone and I normally do dumb things when she is away.

Someone needs to Sticky Gary's mods...

The blunt answer is yes, but not enough. You'll also have to open up the back of the grille; if you look closely, you can see how much of it is actually flow-through.

Easiest thing to do is buy the pricey 302S grille, cheaper effective route is to buy a GT Grille Surround and a Roush or American Muscle bar-grille, as shown below. Saleen also has one that is plug and play, looks to flow very well, and is about $220.

BzqDY.jpg
 
Hambone said:
I was looking over this issue yesterday and I was wondering if drilling holes in the honeycomb impressions would help. Maybe only doing alternate holes to keep some strength. Depending on how meticulous you are you can also file each hole to the hex shape. I hope somebody responds before Sat. to this because the wife is gone and I normally do dumb things when she is away.
I think you either leave your stock one alone and get another grill for the track or hack up the stock one to be like a 302S grill.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/boss-302-technical-forum/2012-boss-302-grille-options/
 
I first drilled out the fogs, and there's plenty of structure left after drilling them all out, but as Drew said, it's not enough for hardcore tracking. Here's a picture of the 302S grille and you can see how wide open it is now. Even with that I went the next step of installing the Tiger Racing Hood.


019xr.jpg

By cloud91965 at 2011-12-23
 
Has anyone tried opening up the fog lights completely and using a mess screen like on the BOSS S grill? If so, has it been successful. I may go this route since my OEM grill already has a big nick in it from a rock so I am buying a new one (OEM grill) and thought I would cut up the original for more airflow.
 

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