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Brake cooling kit (dumb) question...

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OK, after boiling ATE Super Blue at Summit Point I figured might be time to install the cooling kit that's been sitting in my garage since last August. Worked out the issues with horn clearance on the driver's side, washer bottle clearance on the passenger side and problems gettings the hoses on the backing plates (will post my own solutions to these issues). Ready to attach the hoses to the backing plates, secure them and check for clearance. I've trimmed the fender liner on both sides and totally removed the plastic liner in front of the sway bar on driver's side to allow plenty of clearance for the hoses. It appears the passenger side hose may work without trimming bit it looks like the driver's side will need to be shorted about 4 inches. Just wondering what other experiences have been on this before I start hacking the hose.

I'm also switching from ATE fluid to Motul 600. It's only slightly more expensive than ATE and appears to have better specs. Hopefully I won't need to go to Motul 660 ($$$) or Castrol SRF ($$$$). ATE is all I've ever needed in my Porsche 944 Turbo Cup, but its brakes are bigger than the Boss and it only weights 2680 lbs. I'll miss the color change with blue and gold versions of ATE. Next event is Watkins Glen that has a couple of hard braking zones from high speed but also plenty of no-braking areas to allow the cooling ducts to do their thing. I'm not expecting to boil fluid at the Glen! I'm temp painting my rotors and calipers to see how hot we are getting.
 
The Motul does not last as long, in a sitting parked in the garage and absorbing moisture sort of way. ATE can be run for a year between flushes with just a bleed before track days in my experience, but everyone I know who runs Motul says it needs to be flushed every few months. I have not run Motul so can not confirm that, but several of my friends run it in their racecars and high power TT cars and race motorcycles and they all say it does not hold up well over time but is better as long as you keep it fresh.

YMMV of course. And pad selection has an affect on it too. But iirc you are pretty experienced so probably know more about Boss pads than I do ;D
 

steveespo

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Yeah Chuck don't cut the hose there has to be enough so the wheels can go lock to lock without pulling off. some guys notch the brake backing plate connection to get the hose over, I was able to cut the first 2 inner wires and push/twist it on then clam with hose clamp. 13000 miles later and they're still good. I just switched from Motul 600 to the 660 Factory Line fluid, didn't have any trouble with the 600 but always looking for the next best thing. Just ran VIR with 3 120+ MPH braking zones and am going to Pocono long course on 6/24, probably will hit 150 there gotta have good brakes!!!
Steve
 

PeteInCT

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Chuck,

1) I notched the backing plate, did not need to remove plastic panels or remove the windshield washer. I kept hoses all original lengths. I can show you what it looks like at WG if you like.
2) I have RBF600 in the car now and it's never boiled on me (In my TTS w/o brake cooling ducts or in the Boss LS with them), even at Pocono running 155 MPH into the turns. I do believe the pads that someone may run have a bearing in this though.... I am runing Pagids on all 4 corners. Based on how forgiving they are to the rotors I can only suspect that they do not generate as much heat as some other pads. This is only a guess.

The RBF600 is not very hygroscopic, I never had an issue with soaking in too much moisture here in the northeast. Other climates may provoke more issues with it than I've had. The RBF660 is a little less forgiving in that area - buddies of mine in GT3's/GT3RS's go though 2 flushes (3 rounds) in one season of RBF660. Even though the RBF600 has worked for me so far I have a case of Castrol SRF and I'll be switching to that with the next flush, probably mid year. The specs on that stuff seem to blow away all the other fluids and since it is not very hygroscopic at all. in fact it has a compound in it to absorb water. I suspect I can leave it in for a full season.
 
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ChuckP said:
It appears the passenger side hose may work without trimming bit it looks like the driver's side will need to be shorted about 4 inches. Just wondering what other experiences have been on this before I start hacking the hose.

I actually trimmed 3" on the drivers side, I thought the hose was too long and was going to push the trim piece out of the lower valence. After looking at Rick's install pics I saw how it can be routed without trimming (secured to the strut). When I installed the passenger side, I followed the pics without trimming the hose. No issue on either side rubbing after my track days at CMP, but if you follow the hose routing on Rick's pics. it can be easily done.
 
Anyone tried the titanium shims? They were being hyped in the import scene to keep heat out of the fluid, but I suspect it was mostly snake oil. Don't know anyone who actually tried them.
 

PeteInCT

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Two guesses on this:

1) Anything made of metal won't act as much of a heat insulator

2) If it did,the heat stays and builds up on the pad and rotor.

I would guess that you actually want good thermo conductivity to the calipers and just have fluid that can handle the temps.

Just s guess.. ..
 

ArizonaBOSS

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CaliMR said:
Anyone tried the titanium shims? They were being hyped in the import scene to keep heat out of the fluid, but I suspect it was mostly snake oil. Don't know anyone who actually tried them.

I have em, dunno if they have any real effect. A couple racers I know swear by them.
 
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I run Endless RF 650 brake fluid. I boiled AP Racing 610 at VIR last year...... From what I can find NOTHING is better than the Endless Racing RF 650. You can get it for about $38 a bottle.
 
CaliMR said:
Anyone tried the titanium shims? They were being hyped in the import scene to keep heat out of the fluid, but I suspect it was mostly snake oil. Don't know anyone who actually tried them.

I posed that question to several racers and they all said it is not snake oil. Some said they should not be needed on a street car but I decided to get them anyway. I have run three days with them and have had no further fade issues.
 

PeteInCT

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Scott - maybe they provide BETTER thermal conductivity to the calipers and draw heat away from the pads. Is that how they market them?
 

steveespo

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Scott
Link to shims? Front and back if you have them, I am changing rotors and pads to Carbotechs within the next week and wouldn't mind adding them if it helps.
Steve

Or do they act as a sheild to prevent transfer to the caliper pistons protecting the seals and the fluid from overheating?
 
The type of metal used does not conduct heat well, I am not a Metallurgist but I assume the same concept applies to this as the fire walkers in Hawaii. They walk on hot coals covered with volcanic rocks because the volcanic rocks do not conduct heat very well. Same principle applies to material used to transfer electricity as far as I know. Aluminum and steel material conducts heat very well and by adding something that does not in between will break that transfer up, not stop it but it should help.

Here is the link to the fronts
http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_11_37&products_id=30

I did not get the rears so don't have the link for them. I did get two pair of the .5mm and that is the better way to go since the 1.0mm will not fit with new pads.

steveespo said:
Or do they act as a sheild to prevent transfer to the caliper pistons protecting the seals and the fluid from overheating?

That is the idea, not necessarily to shield but more not to transfer the heat from the pads to the calipers.
 
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Oh yeah, as for the brake fluid I may go back to ATE after I use the Motul 600 I have. I really like the fact it comes in 2 colors which helps with fluid changes. I'm hoping with the cooling kit installed I won't need anything more exotic than ATE blue and gold.
 
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Two guesses on this:

1) Anything made of metal won't act as much of a heat insulator

Not true

2) If it did,the heat stays and builds up on the pad and rotor.

And that is what you want.

I would guess that you actually want good thermo conductivity to the calipers and just have fluid that can handle the temps.

Just s guess.. ..


The fluid is the first go and there go your brakes.

Titanium is poor heat conductor unlike aluminum. Why do you suppose the very best race brakes use titanium rings mounted to the pistons?
 

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