Brake Help for my 2008 GT500

Discussion in 'Brakes, Wheels and Tires' started by cgaulzetti, May 18, 2019.

  1. cgaulzetti

    cgaulzetti TMO Intermediate

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    Hi Guys:
    I have neglected the brakes on this flying pig long enough and wanted to know what you guys think I should do so this thing does a better job of stopping.

    Right now we have stock brakes on a car that has had just about everything else optimized for canyon carving and road course work.

    It's a 2008 GT500 with an Autopower 6 point bar, a gutted interior, Kirkey race seats. The engine has had a giant heat exchanger put in to deal with keeping it cool at the track (which is does) and a bigger TVS super charger off of a later GT500. We installed a giant intake too and did a dyno tune.

    I've got 18" squared set up on there with Nitto NT01 tires of equal size for the street. We've got Conti branded SuperSpeedway Hoosiers for track stuff.

    We did all new upper and lower control arms, and ST Coilovers that are amazing.

    Anyway- I knew the car needed brakes- but we just filmed a little piece for "The Smoking Tire" and the host scared the hell out of me- really really pushing the car on the canyon roads in Angeles forest-- and it was clear that I need to up the stopping power.

    I'm not going to get bigger wheels to clear bigger brakes- nor do I want to spend a million bucks- but what would you guys recommend? Can I get away with just pads and rotors? Should I keep the stock Brembos in front and do something else in the back? How are Wilwoods? How about just doing pads, rotors, and steel brake hoses?

    Thanks for the help!
     
  2. Coz

    Coz TMO Race

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    The 4-pot brakes should be fine.

    With respect to brake pads, what type are you running now and what is your tolerance for brake dust?

    While the rest of the car is set for canyon carving and road course work, from what you described it seems that 80-90% of the time it's normal driving or just mildly aggressive as far as braking.

    I would recommend a pad like the CarboTech 1521 series. For the street I use the PowerStop Z26 series with excellent results.

    However, I have brake ducts which help immensely. Not only on the track with track pads but also with the Z26 pads in spirited driving.

    Vorshlag has an excellent set of ducted backing plates for your car. I'm not sure about inlet ducts for your particular year.
     
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  3. ChrisM

    ChrisM No bad days.

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    Fluid, brake ducts, pads. You're going to want all three.
     
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  4. Coz

    Coz TMO Race

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    ChrisM is correct. Get a DOT 4 Brake Fluid. The Motorcraft version is good if you're not tracking it. If you are, get a 600° dry fluid boiling point fluid like Motul RBF600 or Wilwood 600.
     
  5. cgaulzetti

    cgaulzetti TMO Intermediate

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    Hi Coz and ChrisM:
    Thanks so much for the response! This place is really great. I'm not nearly as experienced a track/race car driver as pretty much anyone here- but I love tinkering with my cars and this place has been a great resource for helping me decide what to do and how to do it with my Mustang. (The debates over the merits of a watts link being the exception. Usually I can read posts and see through the BS and figure out who knows what they're talking about- but the Watts link thing seems almost theological rather than a rational debate! My Fays2 is still sitting in my garage awaiting either installation or sale. I still can't decide if I want to invest the time and effort to install it and set it up right!)

    Re: pads I'm not sure what pads it has in it now. They're whatever came with the car when I bought it because I was planning on getting to brakes after I finished up less important but more fun mods.

    (actually all the really fast mustang guys told me i was an idiot for buying a 2008 GT500 and the last thing I would ever want to do is add horsepower to it. I knew then and know now that a Boss 302 would have been a more "reasonable" starting point for a canyon carving street legal track car- but I like doing things kind of different- and I got the thing super cheap. It had no modifications that made it better when I picked it up. The previous owner had put in a dream of the early 2000s stereo system though. Giant pre-amp and amps and speakers and a TV/dvd player- weird microphones etc. He also put a bunch of stick on plastic body pieces on the car like fake scoops on the door and rear side windows, these horrible silver grills made of polished heavy steel, and all sorts of dumb chrome things covering everything in the engine with Shelby snakes embossed on them everywhere. He'd also put some tacky silver plastic that looked really bad. The car also had giant wheels that he took off to sell seperately after he told me they were $3000 wheels so I told him to keep them and take $2000 off the price of the car- which he did! The guy was really nice- we just have opposite tastes! He was into polished clean aesthetics and wanted a modern "Eleanor" from gone in sixty seconds. I wanted an FR500 with more horsepower and a license plate..but I digress)

    My tolerance for brake dust is endless. I don't care about it at all. In general my cars are filthy. I don't leave trash in them or anything- but have not yet fully acclimated to the Southern California way of getting a haircut because you have to go get a haircut tomorrow or washing your car daily and spending hundreds or maybe even thousands of dollars on weird ceramic wax treatments...then again the folks who get ceramic wax treatments consider it absurd that I might get say- a carbon fiber driveshaft that no one will ever, ever see and probably doesn't do anything.

    Those Carbotech pads look perfect! I like that they don't need to get super heated up to work. That's the only problem I see having with "race" pads. I'm fine with shorter life spans on pads (and rotors for that matter) even the ones that claim to have short lives last a long time under normal driving conditions it seems?

    What do you guys like for fluid?
    Do metal brake lines make a difference?
    Thanks for the heads re: the Vorshlag stuff!

    Thanks!
    Craig
     
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  6. Coz

    Coz TMO Race

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    The CarboTech 1521 pads are probably better than what you have now but are not race pads. CarboTech has other pads such as their autocross AX6 pad or their entry XP8 track pad. Either will produce more dust but will be more effective at higher temps. If you're just doing brief canyon carving (i.e. less than 10 minutes of frequent aggressive braking) then you'll probably be ok with the CarboTech street pad. Same thing with the Motorcraft DOT 4 fluid.
     
  7. Coz

    Coz TMO Race

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    I recommend reading this informative page from Optimum Performance ( @OPMustang Tim ).
    https://www.opmustang.com/blog/what-g-loc-brake-compound-do-you-recommend#/

    They are also a sponsor of TMO. G-LOC brake pads are essentially Identical to CarboTech. They are each owned by the same family that parted ways. The GS-1 is equivalent to the 1521.

    If you order, click on the Optimum Performance graphic on this page or below so that TMO gets credit.

    https://www.opmustang.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html#/
     
  8. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    With all that power and R-compound tires or better, I think I'd start shopping at the AX6 level. Especially if you see yourself pushing the car anywhere near as hard as the video host did.

    There are alternatives - not that I'm trying to steer you away from Carbotech because I'm not - in G-loc, the same compound goes by "R6". For those truly hardcore about not caring about dust and occasional noise, you can get by with CT or G-loc 8-compound track pads (XP8 or R8) in street duty, and I'm guessing that in SoCal you aren't going to run into sub-freezing weather. Rotor wear is about the same as with Hawk's HPS street performance pads, but their bite and temperature capability is so much better . . .


    Norm
     
  9. ChrisM

    ChrisM No bad days.

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    Stainless steel brake lines are always useful. When it comes to brakes, don't skimp. I had a friend of mine who had a great philosophy: make it stop, make it turn, THEN make it go. In other words, all the suspension and power stuff doesn't mean crap if you can't slow the car down. With your power, you NEED to keep the brakes and fluid cool. Don't do drilled rotors (haven't mentioned it yet, but just don't. They don't withstand heat well and will develop cracks).

    If you end up with an aggressive pad compound, they will squeal. Why noisy brakes? BECAUSE RACECAR.
     
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  10. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    Chris touched on drilled rotors, slotted is the only way to go, and that said, we are both suggesting two piece rotors. You said you wanted to not spend zillions and a set of two piece rotors ( like Girodisc ) will help haul down the extra weight of the 500's extra weight up front without doing a full brake package. Get very aggressive pads as the GT500s are harder to get hauled down. G-Loc 18 or Carbotech 24s ( this is each brand's most aggressive pad, just the numbers are different).
     
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  11. cgaulzetti

    cgaulzetti TMO Intermediate

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    thanks guys! my only concern with the super aggressive pads are that all the verbiage warns that they're for "track use only" because they need to heat up in order for them to work. Is this true? I want the most bang for the buck and it sounds like 2 piece rotors, race pads, fluid, cooling and stainless lines are the ticket! Thanks guys! Here's some pictures- sorry I don't have my five star NASCAR blade spoiler installed yet.
     

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  12. Champale

    Champale TMO Race

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    Wow that car looks incredible!

    I have been very happy with Ferodo 2500s on several cars over the years - excellent bite, great power, work great from cold, moderate dust, almost zero squeal. If I were you, I would reach out to KNS Brakes and see what pads they would recommend for your unique car and driving situation.
     
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  13. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    My experience - CT and G-loc in 8's and 10's work quite well at 32° and up and don't need to be heated to at least match the bite of stock pads until temperatures drop down into or below the 20's F. I've run 12's down into the 20's F, and those do want a little warming. It's the higher compound numbers - which don't correlate as nicely between these two mfrs - that really need some heat.

    Mfrs tend to be conservative in their recommendations only partly out of liability concerns. People are likely to either overlook the other downsides completely (dust, noise, rotor wear, cost - track pads can seem stupid-pricy if your basis for opinion is $40 mass-market OE-replacements) or over-estimate their tolerance for them and then blame the mfr.

    Until you're running track day sessions, you shouldn't need anything past AX-6/R6 or comparable.


    Norm
     
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  14. JDee

    JDee Ancient Racer

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    +1 to that, the PP1 6 piston Brembo pads from Ford are supposedly Ferodo DS2500 and I found them to be an excellent dual purpose pad. Dusty, but not as bad as some track pads. They wear very well, are a really predictable pad that has good feel and I didn't find them hard on rotors at all. Only complaint I had was the price, up here in the great white north they are obscenely overpriced!
     
  15. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    I have run CT 12s on the street consistently with my Viper, and not likely you will have to worry much about 20-32 degree weather like Norm and I have in Nebraska and Philly -- rumor is San Diego is rather temperate, ha,ha?!

    If you are going to the track , just keep in mind the 10 or 12 Carbotechs will probably work pretty well , but they do tend to wear faster.
     
  16. domesticpower

    domesticpower Track Addict

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    Car looks great! There is lots of good advice here, I will just add a couple of notes:

    1. I'm like you in that I don't wash my car every time I go out or worry a bit of dust. With that said, you don't want to completely ignore brake dust and let it accumulate. Brake dust can be very corrosive and it could eat through the finish on your wheels. And if you use metallic compounds, it will stick and rust on the wheels. Getting rid of every last bit is daunting, but a quick spray (wheel cleaner) and wipe down isn't a bad idea.

    2. It sounds like you might be trying more aggressive compounds for the first time. I've tried a couple aggressive pad compounds that do not work at all when wet. The first time I was driving in the wet, they took me by surprise. If you are driving in the rain, the first couple of stops will surprise you because you will go on the brakes and feel like nothing is happening until the water evaporates (which is probably less than a second, but feels like an eternity when you are diving into a corner).
     

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