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Building a 2020 10 spd. Ecoboost for racing. Inputs?

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
Hello, I just got the car I ordered. 2020 10sbp ecoboost base model. Rules for the series are basically as follows:
- Max WHP: 300
- Weight: WHP x 11
- 2wd
- Front engine

So no go for a V8. And I want to stay on a budget for this build. We have always had issues with keeping the boost up on when shifting a manual road racing turbo car without requiring fancy and expensive electronics that never quite really worked as planned. We want something super reliable and relatively cheap and the 10spd works wonders on the road and shifts faster than any human being, so we decided to give it a try.

Engine mods will be very basic as to not exceed the 300whp mark working mostly on responsiveness and tq with more than adequate cooling, although with low hp's it should not even be an issue.

My main challenge will be with transmission calibration. Do you guys know of a place that can custom calibrate it for me, something very aggressive that will stay in manual mode etc.

thanks!

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ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
Also! aiming for 290whp, but more importantly 3190lbs, is that possible? We all have the same tire (245/40/18) so a heavier car will suffer at the end of the race and the extra hp won't compensate for the extra weight. My feeling is that the sweet spot for that tire would be 260whp and 2860lbs, but that's just impossible for a S550.
 

bob

TMO Advanced
188
121
sfo
I just built racecar from new 2019 gt A10. Trans is perfect. It does everything I ask. Holds gears to redline shifts on command just like the cayman pdk I am used to. Weight is huge problem. I’m 3700lbs gutted with cage and fuel light on. I think I can cut another 100lbs with 18x11 wheels and final removal of ac compressor and condense. The havoc is out of the interior. I was on time crunch and was racing to get build legal to make our 1st Scca t2 race of the year. I’m afraid weight will go up with needed oil and extra trans cooler. I don’t think you can even get to 3500 unless the turbo is really light compared to the v8. I wish I would have gone down a class and picked the EcoBoost like you because the chassis should have better weight balance. I feel like my stock gutted caged pp1 gt is an suv on the racetrack.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
4,793
3,170
Blair, Nebraska
W2W Racing
20+ Years
Madhatter has brought up what seems to be the most common question for this type of set up , so there will be a lot of interest on what you and Bob find out or can respond back to members on. There are those of us married for life to Mrs. Manual, but there is no doubt there will be a mass of folks migrating year after year to Missie Auto. Look forward to hearing from you and others , because it will be a wave of the future --- heck half the customers we talk to can not drive a stick, so common sense tells all the story.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,276
1,765
Santiago, Chile
Sad but true... the manual will fade into memory soon. Am hoping the DCT of the GT500 makes its way to more main stream mustangs as well. Not doubting that they are better at the track, most of all on the straights.
 

bob

TMO Advanced
188
121
sfo
Well I have 2 races on the A10 at 60f ambient temps at autoclub speedway where top speed is around 150 on street tires. So temp problem in the A10 might be disguised by long time in the banking with lots of cooling. I was also not pushing hard because I'm on street tires and got 350miles on the motor but still on the podium. I will know more in a couple weeks at a track with low top speed and lots of turns. I think I will try Alex's approach 1st because I am lazy and instead of going bigger cooler starting where he ended 1st which is misting over the cooler. I'll use the oem washer tank and oem washer pump on a dash switch. Then I'll see if I need more cooler. I also never race above 85f ambient because I just don't enjoy it. 85f ambient in uninsulated tin can and v8 motor is well over 100f in the car wearing a ski suit. No thanks! Been there done that years ago.


I love DCT. What I don't like is DCT failures and the expense and difficulty of fixing them. DCT will fail on you at any time, yet there are millions of slushboxes working their magic on the roads driving home tonight with zero failure. After racing the A10 which is only 3lbs heavier than the Manual so they say, I do not uinderstand why Corvette C8 will have the DCT instead of the A10. There are some complainers of the A10 but those were the 1st gen 2018's. I really like my last quarter 2019 build.
 
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blacksheep-1

Epic Contributor
2,665
2,224
Alessandro is the current 10 speed guru, and he's had plenty of problems running that trans behind a 5.0. I would search his posts on this board. I had an intense conversation with a former GM engineer since they also use this trans and he said in the Camaro it would get heat soak issues after a few hard laps as well, the solution would seem to be massive amounts of cooling, including electric fans and maybe even a pump driven cooler. I was talking this over with the guys at Forte's and Dom (Dom and Paul formed Turbo Action in the early 70s) felt like the problem might lie with the lock up convertor. When it does lock up there is no longer any fluid travel (or cooling) taking place, so to reprogram the unit so it doesn't see lockup might be a step in the right direction. The 700R4s also had this problem when they had lockup convertors. There's also the thermostat that I think Alessandro has found a way around.
Basically, very expensive, and as you may find out, it's the pioneers that catch all the arrows.
Being old school, if I had a choice, I think I might put my money behind a sequential box.
 

Eric62

TMO Intermediate
Seems very counter-intuitive that torque convertor lockup would INCREASE trans temps. The pump on an automatic runs all the time the engine is running and should always circulate the fluid through the cooler. Additionally, lockup should reduce heat created because you aren't trying to shear the fluid in the torque convertor. More lockup should mean less heat, not more heat. This is my understanding of how automatics work. If there is something fundamentally different about the A10 box, I'd really like to understand.

I track my 6 speed auto in Florida and I've never seen more than 225 fluid temp. A little high but not outrageous. I always manually shift the thing since the programming doesn't take into account the track shenanigans in the shift pattern.
 

blacksheep-1

Epic Contributor
2,665
2,224
Seems very counter-intuitive that torque convertor lockup would INCREASE trans temps. The pump on an automatic runs all the time the engine is running and should always circulate the fluid through the cooler. Additionally, lockup should reduce heat created because you aren't trying to shear the fluid in the torque convertor. More lockup should mean less heat, not more heat. This is my understanding of how automatics work. If there is something fundamentally different about the A10 box, I'd really like to understand.

I track my 6 speed auto in Florida and I've never seen more than 225 fluid temp. A little high but not outrageous. I always manually shift the thing since the programming doesn't take into account the track shenanigans in the shift pattern.

That is what I thought and it seems reasonable, but with the example of the 700R4, convertor lock up was the biggest heat inducer and damaged many of the units in development, that is why guys will run the 700R4 for the gearing split, but use a toggle switch to lock up the convertor. When the convertor locks up, there is no more fluid flow through it, that seems to be the issue.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
That is what I thought and it seems reasonable, but with the example of the 700R4, convertor lock up was the biggest heat inducer and damaged many of the units in development, that is why guys will run the 700R4 for the gearing split, but use a toggle switch to lock up the convertor. When the convertor locks up, there is no more fluid flow through it, that seems to be the issue.
Because GM. 😁 ;)

It’s probably worth investigating on the 10R, but my understanding is it’s primarily a Ford design and evolution, despite the joint venture hype.
 

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
so we FINALLY made some progress...

We removed the rear subframe. We had a 4.10 gear laying around and we figured we would try it for road racing with the 10spd and see what it does... We will use the regular torsen T2R diff.


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ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
While we had the subframe removed, we figured we would reinforce and do some seams welding. We will take the car completely apart next winter and weld the entire shell, for now this will do.

We also installed the Steeda rear reinforcements.

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ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
Pretty much Everything is mounted solid in the rear. Thanks Steeda.

We will also be running Wilwood road racing kit 4 piston rear and 6 piston front calipers. We had to use the smaller 14'' rotors because the series requires us to run 18'' tires. The tire width being 245mm, those brakes should be able to handle the job rather easily though.

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ddozier

TMO Intermediate
53
102
STL
The Willwoods will do fine, just don't expect quick pad changes. The front 6p are a pain in the butt to do a pad change. Order extra hardware for the radial mounts on the front calipers They are made specific for them and I have not had any luck sourcing anything else that will fit. I am not a fan of the 12 point nuts they use to hold the caliper to the bracket. Also their "Full Race" pad is very aggressive and nearly an ON/OFF switch when cold. I have not driven the setup on track as it was spec'd on a customer car I built and Wilwood picked the pads based on their experience. Since being delivered the car has been tracked by the owner and he is working with Willwood on compound changes to try change front to rear bias a bit.

Dave
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