The Mustang Forum for Track Enthusiasts

Track Mustangs Online was built specifically for those who track their Mustangs!

Building a 2020 10 spd. Ecoboost for racing. Inputs?

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
The Willwoods will do fine, just don't expect quick pad changes. The front 6p are a pain in the butt to do a pad change. Order extra hardware for the radial mounts on the front calipers They are made specific for them and I have not had any luck sourcing anything else that will fit. I am not a fan of the 12 point nuts they use to hold the caliper to the bracket. Also their "Full Race" pad is very aggressive and nearly an ON/OFF switch when cold. I have not driven the setup on track as it was spec'd on a customer car I built and Wilwood picked the pads based on their experience. Since being delivered the car has been tracked by the owner and he is working with Willwood on compound changes to try change front to rear bias a bit.

DaveView attachment 18135View attachment 18136
amazing! Thanks for the input. I’ll probably be using Gloc pads to start with.
no stress for the pad change as this will only be used for sprint events...
 

bob

TMO Advanced
103
67
sfo
OP,

I'm racing a 2019 GT A10 and loving it! I'm now looking into learning to tune myself. I know zero about tuning. As I try and learn, I tuck away little tidbits people tell me. These tidbits are on my trust but veryify list. One of these tidbits to pass on to you is make sure you or your tuner knows the tune of the motor needs to jive with the tune of the A10. So if you are at a specific track and are right in between shifts and say you up the engine RPM limit a little to stay in a gear that new rpm limit needs to be in the A10 tune or something gets confused and the car does not shift right. We did things like screw with rpm limit on the banking at autoclub speedway in C5 Vettes to avoid a time costing 5th gear upshift for only a few seconds and then a downshift to 3rd entering the infield section. I don't really understand the coyote/A10 connection it but hope to in the near future as a learn about tuning. For now I just throw that out there for you to tuck that info away for yourself and see if it is ever important.
 

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
Did you weigh all that stuff you scraped out? I've been wondering how much weight there is in it, they sure put a pile of it in there. I had a shot at some, man what a nasty job. Used a hair dryer to soften it and then scrapers.
yeah the heat gun work well! I’m at 2,800 lbs the way it sits with the seat and steering column. I’m aiming at 3,200 with me (195lbs) and a 1/4 tank.
 

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
OP,

I'm racing a 2019 GT A10 and loving it! I'm now looking into learning to tune myself. I know zero about tuning. As I try and learn, I tuck away little tidbits people tell me. These tidbits are on my trust but veryify list. One of these tidbits to pass on to you is make sure you or your tuner knows the tune of the motor needs to jive with the tune of the A10. So if you are at a specific track and are right in between shifts and say you up the engine RPM limit a little to stay in a gear that new rpm limit needs to be in the A10 tune or something gets confused and the car does not shift right. We did things like screw with rpm limit on the banking at autoclub speedway in C5 Vettes to avoid a time costing 5th gear upshift for only a few seconds and then a downshift to 3rd entering the infield section. I don't really understand the coyote/A10 connection it but hope to in the near future as a learn about tuning. For now I just throw that out there for you to tuck that info away for yourself and see if it is ever important.
wow great input! Thanks a lot, i really need to put some more thought into it thats for sure.

we’ll also see how it reacts with the 4.10 gears.
 

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
Making some progress. We installed the engine mounts to the lowest position (which caused us some troubles with the intercooler piping). Removed the AC compressor, ac rad and hoses, it should help with the weight and with the engine cooling. As the engine is mostly stock, we will be using the OEM radiator for now with some nice shrouding and we'll see if it does the job. We’ll also be using the oem tranny cooler. Also installed the Steeda bearings on the tension arms, though we’ll be looking at changing them for something lighter eventually, they’re super heavy and the car is on a strict diet.
The rules also state that no panels other than oem must be installed under the car. The rear opening under the trunk in front of the rear bumper really bothered me, that is until we lifted a GT350 (technically a mustang for the rules) and realised it comes with a super nice diffuser from the factory which we’ll be fitting on the ecoboost bumper, should be pretty easy and effective!

5274759F-1CDA-4276-8F6B-616DA9A4D847.jpeg


2294A0A4-7692-49B1-9A16-F07C76811F94.jpeg


9F2E85AF-FD9F-435C-8A70-40ABB1C84A3B.jpeg


1852435E-0714-4A00-B16B-5F31A25C5A43.jpeg


E7B54545-3D33-4A3C-A1DF-4140CEC50B83.jpeg


E95B1F3A-C006-4F00-966D-62AD1F435B44.jpeg


5F031A9C-251A-49E1-BF5E-A953B0B1D160.jpeg


8E78C415-0493-4042-BCD0-A3BA6F22161B.jpeg
 

bob

TMO Advanced
103
67
sfo
I see the MCS on there. Did you do vorschalg's package or just the MCS shocks and your own rates and shock valving? You will find on day 1 the oem tranny cooler inadequate. I did giant derale's for 5.0 motor and A10 and repurposed the oem tranny cooler to the diff. I still have not tested all the coolers being shot down by CV19
 

ChuckBilodeau

TMO Intermediate
I see the MCS on there. Did you do vorschalg's package or just the MCS shocks and your own rates and shock valving? You will find on day 1 the oem tranny cooler inadequate. I did giant derale's for 5.0 motor and A10 and repurposed the oem tranny cooler to the diff. I still have not tested all the coolers being shot down by CV19
Vorschlag package...

inadequate, even with only 350hp going thru it?
 

bob

TMO Advanced
103
67
sfo
Bolt on spacers? Hopefully just for mocking up wheel offsets?
That made me uneasy too! But is it really a problem? I race my S550 with the bolt on spacers because OPerf did not have the bolt through spacers in stock. There is something different about a bolt on spacer interfacing with the hub. These nuts stay tight like any other torqued nut. In many years of using this kind of spacer on streetcars I have never had a spacer nut come loose but wheel nuts sure. On a race car you have to take the wheel off to check or torque the spacer nuts hence why I went to bolt through spacers and long ARP studs. What is weird is that the wheel nuts will loosen after racing just like they do on any hub but the spacer nuts will be fully to torque. Why is that? There is something about the engineering or forces that cause the spacer nuts to be always tight and yet wheel nuts can loosen.
 

bob

TMO Advanced
103
67
sfo
Vorschlag package...

inadequate, even with only 350hp going thru it?
I do not know what causes tranny heat the tranny in action of the HP going through it? On the GT's with A10 the A10 will overheat. The guy with most time on A10 is Flyhalf. You can read his development. I learned from his pain and read about others going bigger than flyhalf and just went with giant derale's trying to skip having to develop my coolers. The big derale's also fit bolt in and have a nice support bracket you can buy to hold them. I had to fabricate 1 small brackets and that was it! It was a Very fast completed project for a custom fabrication. This pic is mid build. I never took a final picture but you get the idea. I also have the hvac out and the condenser is gone too which should improve cooling.

I also went with Vorschlag the middle package because the rates seemed too stiff on his race package. I question the balance also from a simplistic suspension math perspective but I decided to try his setup and see what happens. I can always change rates to what my brain tells me and revalve. But honestly I hope the vorschlag package impresses me and I mutter under my breath with helmet on my head, "SOB Terry Fair really knows something."

20200411_164113.jpg
 

blacksheep-1

TMO Addict
2,474
1,976
nice build, how well do you like taking the torch and scraping undercoating?..that's what hell will look like IMO.
I'm posting some pics of the Ford Trans Am 4spec car for a reference ..I'm pretty sure this is not the Gt4, this is the approved SCCA car, but I might be wrong, it's one or the other.

1KpjjBxl.jpg


5FCrQwtl.jpg


vgV9NRNl.jpg


hTIyTwFl.jpg


vJaiwDEl.jpg


KniNSgVl.jpg


eGOMPU8l.jpg


aN7EYXvl.jpg


PpDKFd0l.jpg


mQKXR1al.jpg
 

bob

TMO Advanced
103
67
sfo
I did the same hell. That stuff is all over the place. Rob...I notice the fp350s does not have the strut tower bracing but some extra stitch welding of the shock towers. Any comments on that? It weighs a ton up high and happy to delete it if it is useless.
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
859
730
halfway between Mosport and Shannonville
W2W Racing
20+ Years
That made me uneasy too! But is it really a problem? I race my S550 with the bolt on spacers because OPerf did not have the bolt through spacers in stock. There is something different about a bolt on spacer interfacing with the hub. These nuts stay tight like any other torqued nut. In many years of using this kind of spacer on streetcars I have never had a spacer nut come loose but wheel nuts sure. On a race car you have to take the wheel off to check or torque the spacer nuts hence why I went to bolt through spacers and long ARP studs. What is weird is that the wheel nuts will loosen after racing just like they do on any hub but the spacer nuts will be fully to torque. Why is that? There is something about the engineering or forces that cause the spacer nuts to be always tight and yet wheel nuts can loosen.
The problem with bolt on spacers is you are introducing another potential failure point and that's never a good thing, especially so when you're pushing everything to its limits. Trusting some company somewhere to not cut corners on a very important mechanical connection is not something I would do, especially given that most of this stuff is coming in from the far east these days and is of unknown quality. Plus adding another set of nuts that have to be checked, as you mentioned. There's not much that can fail on a high quality bolt through spacer.

I have never had a wheel nut come loose. I torque them to spec religiously and check the torque regularly. I've been doing the track thing since the late 80s, and been maintaining my own cars and equipment since 1968, and have had zero wheel stud or nut failures so far. There's no way I'd feel comfy with another set of nuts and studs on every wheel on the street or track, just one more thing to go wrong.

As always, to each his own.
 

bob

TMO Advanced
103
67
sfo
The problem with bolt on spacers is you are introducing another potential failure point and that's never a good thing. There's not much that can fail on a high quality bolt through spacer.
Except the extra force put on the hub stud which is why Tim pairs his bolt through hub centric spacers with ARP hardened studs. But is that enough? I hope so because that's all I've got.
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
859
730
halfway between Mosport and Shannonville
W2W Racing
20+ Years
Except the extra force put on the hub stud which is why Tim pairs his bolt through hub centric spacers with ARP hardened studs. But is that enough? I hope so because that's all I've got.
I hope so too, 'cause that's what I've got as well. ARP studs are way stronger than the OEM ones though so I don't worry about this part of the car much. I never was a fan of spacers, but they are well made these days, solve some issues and in all honesty I've never heard of a failure, though I'm sure it's happened!
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Latest posts

Buy TMO Apparel

Buy TMO Apparel
Top