C&D Lightning Lap 2016

[Grant 302]

You guys are too used to the Ford way of ripping off customers with ADM.

No. Ford doesn't set ADMs. And I, for one, am not 'used to' ADMs. :

 

[ford20]

@coboss makes some very good points. However, if I were in the 'Vette market, I'd just wait 5 years and you can buy whichever model you want for $35K or less, and most of the cars will have pretty low miles on them and "have never seen rain" :

Ditto! Maybe in 5 years or so I will pickup a grand sport with the Z07 package and have fun with that. I just don't see my self trying to actively track a $80k car with the possibility of me losing it and crashing into a wall.

 

[VoodooBoss]

@coboss makes some very good points. However, if I were in the 'Vette market, I'd just wait 5 years and you can buy whichever model you want for $35K or less, and most of the cars will have pretty low miles on them and "have never seen rain" :

You forgot the chrome wheels.

 

[coboss]

No. Ford doesn't set ADMs. And I, for one, am not 'used to' ADMs. :

You can't tell me that Ford corporate isn't complicit in the ADM racket. They are completely capable of pumping out more GT350's or Focus RS. The dealers like the limited availability, because they get to increase unit margins, and Ford rewards them with "allocations" based on past sales. Ford could warn dealers that ADM would result in lost allocations, but they don't do that.

 

[Grant 302]

You can't tell me that Ford corporate isn't complicit in the ADM racket. They are completely capable of pumping out more GT350's or Focus RS. The dealers like the limited availability, because they get to increase unit margins, and Ford rewards them with "allocations" based on past sales. Ford could warn dealers that ADM would result in lost allocations, but they don't do that.

??? "complicit"? Can't tell you to take off the tin foil hat either. : ADMs aren't illegal. There is nothing complicit in Fords limited edition car production. :

 

[TMSBOSS]

You can't tell me that Ford corporate isn't complicit in the ADM racket. They are completely capable of pumping out more GT350's or Focus RS. The dealers like the limited availability, because they get to increase unit margins, and Ford rewards them with "allocations" based on past sales. Ford could warn dealers that ADM would result in lost allocations, but they don't do that.

Coboss

Without a doubt, you are the biggest Chevy Fan Boy on this site.

Z-28s could not sell even at MSRP. I track my car with a guy how picked up a 2015 Z new at $46. Was on the lot for over a year and both Chevy and the dealer had to chop massive numbers to move it. It's a great car, they just over priced it for the market. My Boss with a few mods is quicker.

Chevy over saturates their market segment with several different track models, places no limits because they don't sell and then have to discount many models to move them. Ford does not and somehow this makes Ford complicit in ADMs??? You are amazing.

 

[coboss]

Coboss

Without a doubt, you are the biggest Chevy Fan Boy on this site.

Z-28s could not sell even at MSRP. I track my car with a guy how picked up a 2015 Z new at $46. Was on the lot for over a year and both Chevy and the dealer had to chop massive numbers to move it. It's a great car, they just over priced it for the market. My Boss with a few mods is quicker.

Chevy over saturates their market segment with several different track models, places no limits because they don't sell and then have to discount many models to move them. Ford does not and somehow this makes Ford complicit in ADMs??? You are amazing.

What, exactly, keeps Ford from building more GT350s? The car is made on the same assembly line as the GT, there are zero parts availability issues. Think *real* hard. Oh, they don't want to, and that is fine, especially if you are a dealer with an "allocation". But don't pretend there isn't a conscious decision made by Ford marketing on the number of cars produced. They did the same thing with the Boss, and yes, it is one of the things that makes the car special. You don't want to see a car just like yours three times a day. GM has taken a different approach to that by offering hundreds of color/stripe/equipment options. You can order anything you want, from any Chevy dealer. There are literally thousands of permutations of the 2017 Corvette when you consider models, convertible/non-convertible, colors, and equipment.

Fanboy? I am a fan of the most car for the money that I would actually pay, out the door. In 2012 it was the Boss 302. Right now, that is several GM cars, hands down. Look at the Mustang line right now. Ecosnooze is supposed to be the entry level performance Mustang. It gets killed by the Camaro V6 and even the base Camaro Turbo 2.0 beats it with equivalent tires. The V6 Mustang isn't even in the conversation. The GT PP was slower in C/D's Lightning lap than a V6 Camaro 1LE and gets hurt so badly by even a standard Camaro SS that Ford now emphasizes that it is a "GT". The GT350TP is a nice effort, but a 1LE SS Camaro likely does equal lap times at $15,000 less MSRP, and in real out the door cost, the difference is probably $20,000. Really not even in the same ballpark. The GT350R is the undisputed pony car track champ, until the first head to head against a ZL1 Camaro, then it won't be #1. Once you get to the GT350R MSRP, you have to look at a Grand Sport Corvette, which solidly trounces a GT350R. What is point of a GT350R if you aren't tracking it?

 

[BigTaco]

I don't really want to get into the whole "fanboy" thing but I will say this; If Ford wants to make a ton of cash on the GT350 or any other performance vehicle, then they would pump out as many as possible. Problem with that is no one would buy all of them.....
Like it or not, the GT500,GT350, Raptor, Z28 are all pointed at like, the smallest segment of the auto buying market. Most people have no interest in a high horsepower, high maintenance (relatively speaking), tire eating, and gas guzzling (again, relatively speaking) sports type vehicle.

About those ADMs. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but there is no conspiracy here. Ford or GM or whomever has just about zero say in this. It's up to the owners/managers of the dealership to decide what they want to "mark up". Free market economy at work. Hence the "S" in MSRP. It's that simple. No one at some MFG is wringing their hands and getting a cut of each mark up. It goes straight to the dealership. It does not bother me. I don't pay mark up ever. I wait it out or get resourceful till I find the deal/price I'm willing to pay.

FCA (Dodge) tried to control mark ups but in the end, the only thing that they could come up with was awarding dealerships allocations based on the amount of units sold. The dealerships that sold more, got more. Again, back to free market and capitalism (yay!).

GM properly lost money on the Z28. Those things were selling at below MSRP towards the end. Again, that was incentivized, I'm sure no dealer took a hit other that flooring charges......

And, at the risk of sounding like a fanboy; Ford spends a hell of allot on the Ford Performance group with parts, vehicles(race and street), with a support structure that is really robust for the end users. From the tech line to the hands on involvement......
You would be greatly surprised at how much effort goes into just sending you your owners kit.

GM and FCA don't really have anything that resembles the Ford Performance Group. The closest thing would be maybe TRD, but that is more "branding" than substance.

Thanks for listening and please tip your waiter.....

BT

 

[2012-Boss]

Coboss does make some valid points that right now it is easier to get a performance per dollar value from GM and many of the cars are faster off the showroom floor.

I do not agree with the complicit statement about ADMs but do realize that limited availability helps fuel that fire.

I am not going to buy a GT350 unless I can get it at or below MSRP. I also would have a hard time leaving it alone, which presents a real problem with how tightly integrated the car is as an overall system.

I would prabably be more likely to take the Steve Esposito route and buy a base performance pack an modify the *&$@ out of it. Coil overs, cobra jet, coolers, magnum XL, stripped interior, etcetera. Many of the parts could come off my Boss to pursue this route too. For me, it isn't which car is better off the showroom floor, but which is better after I spend another 10-20k turning it into a dedicated track car.

Finally, Ford Performance is awesome with how they support us. They answer phones, emails, are good with follow up, and you find the employees at the track racing what they sell on their own dime. When was the last time you went to the track and got advice from a GM performance employee in between sessions?