The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

can Ford tell if you have flashed your car?

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
+1, well said.

As car manufacturers go, Ford seems to be pretty reasonable with how they manage warranty issues. Some dealers can be jerks, but you always have the option to speak with Dearborn on any issue. As DOT said, if any one has any concerns at all then they probably should not be tracking their car, nonetheless be installing TK.

Try owning a BMW, Audi or VW and see how far you get with 'questionable' warranty issues (not bashing the Germans, that comment is just from direct experience with those brands). Trust me, I think we have less concerns than owners of these other brand vehicles.
 

MLM

Mike
129
0
5 DOT 0 said:
My understanding of TK is that it's warrantied for 36/36,000 like stated on their website. So nothing changes during that period. What changes is between the 36/36,000 and 60/60,000. If TK is determined to be the cause of the warranty issue it will not be covered. If you're driving using the silver key and your water pump goes out at 52,500 miles it should still be covered under warranty. If you're tracking your car using TK at 52,500 miles and you fry a cylinder and the TK tune is determined to be the cause it will not be covered under warranty. (those are just examples) I could have sworn we covered this already in a dozen other threads. ;)

Bottom line is if you're that worried about it don't buy TK and leave your car completely stock. I don't believe there are any aftermarket tunes that come with a warranty.

One subtlety is that there are two different warranties at play. One is the factory warranty, and the other is the Ford Racing warranty. For the first 36/36,000, one or the other will kick in, but probably not both at the same time for any given issue. I hate to say it, but the details are in the fine print, so it is fair for people to be asking. The two warranties may not be 100% complementary.
 
Sorry to start the warranty debate again. Just a fyi, some aftermarket company offer a 1yr warranty with there tunes. That said,based on the current wording on the Trackey web site, my guess is if you have an engine or drive train failure with Trackey, they would fix it. If it become a recurring problem for only Trackey cars, then there wording gives them an out (After 3yr, 36k miles).
 

MLM

Mike
129
0
BossJockey said:
Sorry to start the warranty debate again. Just a fyi, some aftermarket company offer a 1yr warranty with there tunes. That said,based on the current wording on the Trackey web site, my guess is if you have an engine or drive train failure with Trackey, they would fix it. If it become a recurring problem for only Trackey cars, then there wording gives them an out (After 3yr, 36k miles).

I think your guess is good. As some have observed, if you're really worried about it, don't install TK. On the other hand, part of what you're paying for with TracKey is a warranty, so it's not unreasonable to know what you're getting. That might make the decision easier or at least more informed if you're unsure about it.
 
OK I have my questions Answered.

I called Ford performance Tech and asked him about the track key.
In his words he said, "If you are using the track key and there is a failure before 3yr/36K it will be covered" After that a Field service engineer will be sent to see if it was the Key parameters that were the cause"

If you are using the black key the warranty is still 5/60 and this does not change whether or not you have previously used the Red Key. ( I thought once you went red everything lowered to 3/36)

I asked if going back and forth between red and black lowered it to 3/36. His answer NO.
So it looks like I will get the red key and use it all the time till 3/36 then only on track days after that till 5/60. all the other time I will be using the black so if something does happen I will be covered between 3/36 and 5/60.

Which also answers my Main question of Can they see that it has been flashed. With this answer from Ford performance they know exactly which tune you were using when the part fails so there is some sort of monitoring device they use or can read. So after 3/36 if you think you are developing a problem. I would switch back to the black and do a bunch of cycles or miles to make sure the car thinks it is black keyed.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
No disrespect but this makes no sense to me. There are two program mappings in the PCM when you get TK installed, the stock 'Black Key' program and the 'Track Only' red key program. Once you have TK installed, both keys work. I strongly doubt (someone prove otherwise please, I'll listen) that Ford is going to extend it's full 5/50K warranty coverage on a car that has TK installed just because the 'black key' was in use when the engine blew a head gasket (or whatever). I'm not sure if the PCM will even know that fact by storing that info when issues occur. I believe that even if you NEVER used the Black Key after 3/36K any issues you have that could possibly be attributed to the TK red key program would give Ford a license to deny warrantied coverage for a repair.
 
No disrespect taken. I see where you are coming from. After all the person I talked to was a Ford Tech and if there is a chance he was mistaken he then would have given me the wrong info, or for that matter Ford could come back and say he was wrong sorry NO COVERAGE.
 
"That could possibly" is not correct, it has to be proven it was the cause. That is how warranties work. What they have written on their website, and the fact that the packet given with the track key (after actually, if you get it from the dealer like I did) does not contradict the website, actually is pretty bad for them if they try to deny warranty based on track key. The only thing that their warranty would not cover for sure is the track key program itself after the 3/36. But we won't know what they do until they start popping during the 2 years.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
CaliMR said:
"That could possibly" is not correct, it has to be proven it was the cause. That is how warranties work. What they have written on their website, and the fact that the packet given with the track key (after actually, if you get it from the dealer like I did) does not contradict the website, actually is pretty bad for them if they try to deny warranty based on track key. The only thing that their warranty would not cover for sure is the track key program itself after the 3/36. But we won't know what they do until they start popping during the 2 years.

Cali - I agree, what I meant is that it may given them a license to TRY to deny a warranty coverage issue (i.e. what a dealer may say to get you to go away...). In reality your 100% right, they have to PROVE it. And in the real world that's very hard to do in many circumstances.
 
Fordman9870 said:
Jeep can you back up your statement? I just like to have hard proof.

Now I am wondering.... if you use the track key, your warranty goes down to 3/36 BUT if you switch back to your regular key and are using your regular key and something happens at say 40K miles and they can see you were using your regular key when it happened. would it be covered?
haha i think my thread is leading to more questions than answers.
Thanks to all contributors so far!!
I saved several articals of ford stating that the track key will not effect your exsiting warrantee once they say that they have to honor it the statment is all over online.

•Ford announces at SEMA the highly-anticipated TracKey goes on sale Nov. 1, 2011.
•TracKey, available for 2012 Mustang Boss 302 and Laguna Seca owners through Ford and Lincoln dealers, adds powertrain control software to the car for track use, providing full race calibration and launch control in addition to the stock calibration, without compromising factory warranty


http://www.fordtrackkey.com/trackey/default.asp
 

MLM

Mike
129
0
jeepinocala said:
I saved several articals of ford stating that the track key will not effect your exsiting warrantee once they say that they have to honor it the statment is all over online.

I don't think it works that way. It is true that TracKey does not void the factory warranty, but the only thing that counts is what is printed in black and white in the warranty booklet and not what they say online or in the media. You've got to read the fine print! Also, failure to use 91 octane or higher fuel voids the TracKey warranty.

"This Limited Warranty replaces the existing manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty for engine, driveline and suspension parts, when TracKey is identified as the causal part of a warrantable concern. Installation of TracKey by an authorized dealer does not nullify the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. All engine, driveline and suspension warranty issues not related to installation of TracKey remain subject to existing manufacturer's New Vehicle Limited Warranty."

http://www.fordracingparts.com/announcements/include/Warranty_2012_TracKey.pdf
 
Except that they advertise it as not affecting your warranty, and they do not provide the warranty change documents in the package or require you to sign anything when you purchase/install it. Their information is conflicting, and the modified warranty hidden on a link not on the front page like the statement it does not affect the warranty. There is enough wiggle room in there if you really tried to fight it. Plus they have to prove it was caused by track key. Ford is usually good about stuff like this, no need to worry unless it actually starts being an issue.


Actually just looked, and it isn't even linked on the track key page is it? You have to click the warranty info link way at the bottom then from there you click the track key warranty.
 
I understand what you are saying in black and white on the factory warranty but one they advertised that it does not effect it then yes they put it in writing and it would be a very easy law suite if needed but I very much doubt they would let it go that far at all. There are far to many advertisments of it not effecting the existing warranty that puts them in a real bad position as to not covering it. I really believe these motors are so well built as long as you dont do anything weird they are not comming apart. I personally bought this car for how it was built when the warranty runs out it will have nos a 150 shot and I have not a single worry at all. But all in all I really believe to the point if mine goes to crap at 4 years I would have a new motor without any hassle what so ever ford stands behind their product and it would take some serious racing/beating on I could not imagine that hard of abuse to one of these I have had a fox body with 100 shot of nos the car had almost 200000 miles on it and when I sold the car it still ran great those cars were built like crap compared to these.
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Buy TMO Apparel

Buy TMO Apparel
Top