Cat deletes

[PeteInCT]

Gary,

Rick and I have both decided that you just need to get the 302S and stop procrastinating. ;D

(then I'll take that existing suspension system off your hands : )

 

[boss man]

My cat deletes showed up today 8) 17.2 lbs.....anyone know what the stock pipe weighs?



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Is that the Magnaflow pipe? And are you leaving in the factory headers?

 

[cloud9]

Gary,

Rick and I have both decided that you just need to get the 302S and stop procrastinating. ;D

(then I'll take that existing suspension system off your hands : )

But I don't want to lose my radio :'(

 

[cloud9]

Is that the Magnaflow pipe? And are you leaving in the factory headers?

It's a Kooks pipe and the LT headers are shipping from Swaintech on 1/18 after they're done coating them. Went with the coating just to try and quiet them down a bit so we'll see how it works. A friend of mine has the same headers (non-coated), mid-pipe and Corsa mufflers for comparison.

 

[PeteInCT]

But I don't want to lose my radio :'(

IPod nano ;D

 

[VoodooBoss]

But I don't want to lose my radio :'(

The 302S has a sound system and it sounds way better than a stinking radio. 8)

 

[Tflong24]

So, if I get the below cat deletes, all I need is a tune to shut down the O2 sensors, and the factory computer(no trackey), can handle adjustments for more power? This seems like a cheap 10-15 HP.

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-2011-up-mustang-cat-delete-pipes.html


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[2012YellowBoss]

This seems like a cheap 10-15 HP.

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-2011-up-mustang-cat-delete-pipes.html

Yes, but I think this is a better deal since I'm told that there is a restriction of 2 1/4 in the H-pipe area. Only problem is you will lose the side pipes this way. At this point I do not mind but if it is for a street car you lose the cool factor of them.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/jba-highflow-xpipe-1113gt.html

I weighed out the cost of full headers and install, then maybe axle backs and it was way too much for an extra 10-15 HP over a simple cat delete. The headers the car comes with and axle backs are not very restrictive to begin with. I figure it is better to put the cash toward a set of Ford Racing front lower control arms, bump steer kit and maybe the Multimatic third link.

 

[pufferfish]

Yes, but I think this is a better deal since I'm told that there is a restriction of 2 1/4 in the H-pipe area. Only problem is you will lose the side pipes this way. At this point I do not mind but if it is for a street car you lose the cool factor of them.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/jba-highflow-xpipe-1113gt.html

I weighed out the cost of full headers and install, then maybe axle backs and it was way too much for an extra 10-15 HP over a simple cat delete. The headers the car comes with and axle backs are not very restrictive to begin with. I figure it is better to put the cash toward a set of Ford Racing front lower control arms, bump steer kit and maybe the Multimatic third link.

if i could take back my $1000 for my headers and catted x-pipe and forgo the knuckle busting install, i would. the gains are mostly with ditching the stock cats, which could be replaced with a piece of tubing for what, like 50 bucks? and i have the check engine light on constantly with those expensive cats anyhow. the only change would be the extra cash in my wallet. i'd put the stock headers back on if i wasn't terrified of having to go through that again!

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I believe aftermarket tuning is required if you're planning on tracking your car with cat deletes OR headers; there is catalyst over-temp stuff in the stock calibration that needs to be eliminated/disabled when ditching the cats. Otherwise your rear O2s will signal that the exhaust is way hotter than expected, the computer will think you are having a cat failure, and the car will go to Limp Mode. I believe this is the problem that Chris Cobbetto and his team at Performance Autosport were dealing with in their AI car last year.

 

[steveespo]

if i could take back my $1000 for my headers and catted x-pipe and forgo the knuckle busting install, i would. the gains are mostly with ditching the stock cats, which could be replaced with a piece of tubing for what, like 50 bucks? and i have the check engine light on constantly with those expensive cats anyhow. the only change would be the extra cash in my wallet. i'd put the stock headers back on if i wasn't terrified of having to go through that again!

I don't know if that is entirely true, my 2011 Mustang GT had the following mod/dyno progression;
1) Stock/stock tune-368 RWHP/363 lb ft torque
2) Boss 302 Intake, Steeda 94 mm CAI, Brenspeed Tune 405 RWHP/373 lb ft torque
3)Boss 302 intake, Steeda 102 mm Boss specific CAI, Steeda 93 octane tune, BBK 85 mm TB, ARH 1 7/8" long tube headers with 3" catted x-pipe. 438 RWHP/390 lb ft torque. Also had 3.5" Drive Shaft Shop aluminum driveshaft in this configuration if that matters.

33 HP and 17 lb ft are worth the $1300 I spent on the headers. I just ordered the cat delete tubes to swap out for track duty from American Racing, I plan on doing another dyno session this spring with those installed. Even though the ECU should adjust to increased airflow a tune will enhance gains from any mod, with Cold Air Intakes the diameter of the sample tube at the MAF sensor dictates when custom calibration is required.
Steve

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Steve
Unless I am reading this wrong I don't see where the headers gave you 33HP straight up? The drive shaft is going to give you some extra RWHP and you added a different tune and bigger throttle body.

For me even if I get half the HP out of a cat delete vs. header swap and cat delete it is worth it. I think the money can be better spent on suspension upgrades that will shave off lap times better then a few ponies on the straights. To each his own, not putting down your setup but after researching this, the factory headers the car comes with are not bad pieces. If I had all the money in the world to throw at this I would do it, but the numbers I crunched do not even come close to justifying the header swap.

I am also keeping the factory axle backs for the same reason, a few ponies for 500-600 bucks. It it was about other things like weight I would consider it but last thing I need is more weight off the rear, sometimes I think I need a couple of sand bags in the trunk for traction. The factory exhaust is pretty free flowing except for the cats and a restriction in the mid pipe.

 

[steveespo]

Steve
Unless I am reading this wrong I don't see where the headers gave you 33HP straight up? The drive shaft is going to give you some extra RWHP and you added a different tune and bigger throttle body.

For me even if I get half the HP out of a cat delete vs. header swap and cat delete it is worth it. I think the money can be better spent on suspension upgrades that will shave off lap times better then a few ponies on the straights. To each his own, not putting down your setup but after researching this, the factory headers the car comes with are not bad pieces. If I had all the money in the world to throw at this I would do it, but the numbers I crunched do not even come close to justifying the header swap.

I am also keeping the factory axle backs for the same reason, a few ponies for 500-600 bucks. It it was about other things like weight I would consider it but last thing I need is more weight off the rear, sometimes I think I need a couple of sand bags in the trunk for traction. The factory exhaust is pretty free flowing except for the cats and a restriction in the mid pipe.

No offense taken, and I do think the DS and throttle body picked up some of the power but an 8% horsepower gain at the wheels on a normally aspirated engine is not bad. Yes the cat deletes on a stock engine will get you some power but I would like to see the data on exactly how much. Mufflers can give you 2 things, both good, weight savings of 20 lbs or more, which in my case I used to offset some of the addition of a differential cooler and pump, LCA brackets and the roll bar. And the sound of Borlas or Corsas is just out of this world. I also relocated the battery to the truck to move 30lbs front biased weight to a rear biased location. I know there is a lot of apples to oranges going on in this discussion and it depends on how crazy someone wants to get, but I am in the hardcore, normally aspirated, no nitrous, hogh RPM crowd, and that is inherently the most expensive way to go. so like you say to each his own.
But you will not see a 15 horsepower gain at the wheels with just a cat delete, and it will need a tune to head off the Ford cat efficiency mapping from pulling fuel and timing and with it power.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

I will have to tune the car for the cat delete, been told that by several people. The tune will be nothing radical, just whatever is needed to turn off the CEL's for the cats and evap and changes needed from running without the cats. I will add in a bump in RPM's and remove the speed limiter. I fully expect to pick up 10-15 HP from the cat delete and X-pipe, unfortunately we will never know because I have no plans to dyno the car. The Boss has more then enough HP for me at the moment, any little extra is fine, however the equal or bigger reason for doing this is the heat the cats put off.

Maybe in time I will consider a muffler swap but right now there are so many things I want to do and a different sound is not even on the list. I enjoy listening to the different vids out there and hearing a Boss S start up next to me at the track is awesome but not worth the cost for me. I have removed a lot of weight off the rear, from the lighter suspension stuff to taking out all trunk trim, back seat and trim. The evap system is also coming out so there is more weight. The only thing added was the roll bar. One thing I considered was just bolting on a muffler deletes, I may remove mine to test how loud it is without cats. I know with cats it can be done and still street driven but without cats, maybe not?

Remember all this comes from a guy running spray painted rims and a broken grille for over a year now, cracked almost in half and glued together :

 

[Sesshomurai]

I put the LT's and off-road catless H-pipe system in, not for sound, but because its recommended to support an F1 procharger, which will adorn my motor in the fall. 8)

 

[cloud9]

I put the LT's and off-road catless H-pipe system in, not for sound, but because its recommended to support an F1 procharger, which will adorn my motor in the fall. 8)

Have you talked to anyone running a s/c'd 5.0 on the road course? These motors are already difficult to keep cool naturally aspirated. Keeping the GT500s cool for more than a few laps on the road course required significant cooling upgrades and even with that it was borderline. I went to the Boss because I was tired of fighting it. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig on that one, but maybe someone's figured out a way to do it.

 

[Sesshomurai]

Have you talked to anyone running a s/c'd 5.0 on the road course? These motors are already difficult to keep cool naturally aspirated. Keeping the GT500s cool for more than a few laps on the road course required significant cooling upgrades and even with that it was borderline. I went to the Boss because I was tired of fighting it. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig on that one, but maybe someone's figured out a way to do it.

Ill be the guinea pig on this one. Have a few ideas. Races are only 30 minutes each though. And im only gonna run 7-10 lbs of boost and program the boost to kick in only under WOT. If this motor cant handle that ill put a rouch/yates nascar motor in.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Ill be the guinea pig on this one. Have a few ideas. Races are only 30 minutes each though. And im only gonna run 7-10 lbs of boost and program the boost to kick in only under WOT. If this motor cant handle that ill put a rouch/yates nascar motor in.

Sell your Boss and buy a 302S.

 

[cloud9]

Ill be the guinea pig on this one. Have a few ideas. Races are only 30 minutes each though. And im only gonna run 7-10 lbs of boost and program the boost to kick in only under WOT. If this motor cant handle that ill put a rouch/yates nascar motor in.

After talking with David Murray about his time racing the Ford GT (designed as a supercharged car) even with a full race team they constantly struggled with overheating. You're heading down a path that's just going to be one issue after another but have at it.

 

[PeteInCT]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then..... LOL