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Catching up to a GTR down here in Chile...part 2

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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Hi all, as some of you may remember a friends 2013 mustang gt is heading towards a full time track car. He has the car 80% stripped inside (no A/C seats carpet etc). Cortex Koni coil overs and all the usual suspension goodies running on 295/30-19 and 315/30-19 Hoosiers with Forgestar F14 19x10 and 19x11. Pretty much all his suspension mods are straight from this website

He has the fastest rear wheel drive car in our time trail events in a 5 to 10min session. He managed to beat a semi stock GTR on a regular basis but now the GTR has upgraded to 800hp and is running on hoosiers as well. I help him out with English as he only speaks Spanish. We were wondering if he should start investing on more suspension upgrades or jump in on a super charger as these time trials are relatively short and our engine temps are very stable.

I have seen thewweb pages with the very successful Vorshlag mustang that runs with minor engine mods but very wide wheels and tires. Would that be a better way to go....or both ;D..... its his money not mine!!!

His modes are as follows
2013Mustang GT (auto :eek:), MM camber plates, Pagid RS29 pads, BBK LTH with cattless xpipe and straight pime, Stoptech ST60 trophy calipers 380mm discs, Castrol SRF, FFRP brake ducts, F14 19x10 and 19x11, R6 Hoosier 295/30-19 and 315/30-19 square, -2.8 camber, 0.15 toe out, Dynatech 3.5" driveshaft, Cortex extreme Koni race coilovers, BMR adjustable Panhard and Front swaybar, Relocation brackets and LCA. No rear bar. Airaid carbon fiber CAI, BBK 84.5mm TB, MM 6pt roll bar. 4.10 or 3.73 rear ends. SVT tune.
 
He's still missing a few items on the suspension. First up are the drop ball joints and bump steer kit. Then the CorteX watts link. You can easily go way beyond those two items but that's a start. Going with 315 square Hoosier's should help his time too. I'm not a huge supercharger fan for the track and I'd look at what John and Steve have done with their engines adding the CJ intake and associated hardware.

@LS110
@steveespo
@ArizonaBOSS
 
VooDooBOSS said:
He's still missing a few items on the suspension. First up are the drop ball joints and bump steer kit. Then the CorteX watts link. You can easily go way beyond those two items but that's a start. Going with 315 square Hoosier's should help his time too. I'm not a huge supercharger fan for the track and I'd look at what John and Steve have done with their engines adding the CJ intake and associated hardware.

@LS110
@steveespo
@ArizonaBOSS

The simple change of going with 315s square is significant, although to truly get the benefit he would need to increase the wheel sizes to 11" front and 12" rear. That has a big impact on the amount of rubber gripping the track. And I am please with my CJ manifold mods, although that cost adds up in a hurry.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
VooDooBOSS said:
He's still missing a few items on the suspension. First up are the drop ball joints and bump steer kit. Then the CorteX watts link. You can easily go way beyond those two items but that's a start. Going with 315 square Hoosier's should help his time too. I'm not a huge supercharger fan for the track and I'd look at what John and Steve have done with their engines adding the CJ intake and associated hardware.

@LS110
@steveespo
@ArizonaBOSS

I have the Bump steer kit waiting on the shelf so to speak. I was not aware of the drop ball joints before, have to read more carefully! I forgot the mention he has the boss 302 manifold. Bit wary of cams and such as getting a local shop into the motor would be very risky!!
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,730
2,734
Arizona, USA
LS110 said:
The simple change of going with 315s square is significant, although to truly get the benefit he would need to increase the wheel sizes to 11" front and 12" rear. That has a big impact on the amount of rubber gripping the track. And I am please with my CJ manifold mods, although that cost adds up in a hurry.

+1. Getting 315s put on really woke the car up--this would be the best "mod" you could do, IMO.

Ball joints & bump steer kits you will probably not notice any real difference.
 
ArizonaBOSS said:
...Ball joints & bump steer kits you will probably not notice any real difference.

Having accurately measured the front suspension, DO NOT do the ball joints and bump steer kits unless he has replaced the front arms with some aftermarket arm with bad geometry that has to be fixed. I don't recommend front arms, ball joints or bump steer kits. The Vorshlag car ran without any of those and used the tires very, very well.

Do change out the front A-arm bushings. That will make a minor, positive change.

And get the right wheels and tires on the car before anything else. After that, then a Watts link and then good shocks.

If you have any questions about Big Red, the Vorshlag car, feel free to ask. We had so many parts on and off that car searching for better lap times it was almost ridiculous.
 
modernbeat said:
Having accurately measured the front suspension, DO NOT do the ball joints and bump steer kits unless he has replaced the front arms with some aftermarket arm with bad geometry that has to be fixed. I don't recommend front arms, ball joints or bump steer kits. The Vorshlag car ran without any of those and used the tires very, very well.

Do change out the front A-arm bushings. That will make a minor, positive change.

And get the right wheels and tires on the car before anything else. After that, then a Watts link and then good shocks.

If you have any questions about Big Red, the Vorshlag car, feel free to ask. We had so many parts on and off that car searching for better lap times it was almost ridiculous.

@modernbeat I will take you up on that.

Apart from wider meats what did you do to put the power down from low speeds and coming out of corners? that seems like the hardest thing for me. I use the Vorshlag D-force 10" wheels.. I think the rear is too stiff at 225 lbs /in. sway bar is 18mm. I make a lot of NA power so I get it that I cant put the hammer down but I get crushed by stock GTO's coming out of the corners while I sit there at 1/2 throttle.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
modernbeat said:
Having accurately measured the front suspension, DO NOT do the ball joints and bump steer kits unless he has replaced the front arms with some aftermarket arm with bad geometry that has to be fixed. I don't recommend front arms, ball joints or bump steer kits. The Vorshlag car ran without any of those and used the tires very, very well.

Do change out the front A-arm bushings. That will make a minor, positive change.

And get the right wheels and tires on the car before anything else. After that, then a Watts link and then good shocks.

If you have any questions about Big Red, the Vorshlag car, feel free to ask. We had so many parts on and off that car searching for better lap times it was almost ridiculous.

Great! thats a huge help and very much appreciated, was sorely tempted by Big Red but cant bring used cars to Chile! The car has the Koni 30's in Cortex offset coilovers with 600#/350# springs. was thinking maybe going to rear 250 springs? Our tracks are pretty patchy! Just about to order the cortex watts link, wondering if we should get the torque arm at the same time?

Is there much difference in the end between the BMR, Cortex or Whiteline watts link?
 
On my car, I have stock suspension with camber plates and cortex wattslink. The wattslink alone gave me so much more confidence. I was able to do just what you're looking to accomplish - get on the gas earlier and more aggressively.

I think if your budy does wattslink along with bigger tires, he should drop a decent amount from his lap times.
I personally don't know what the advantages and disadvantages are between the different design wattslinks. But cortex's involvement with pirelli world challenge sealed the deal for me. If cortex's parts are able to stand to the abuse of professional racing, then they should handle my track events with little trouble.
 
Not sure what the budget is here but it never hurts to try and drop more weight out of the car. I didn't notice any race type seats in the current list of mods. Removing the rear seats and replacing the front seats with lightweight versions can drop over 100lbs from the car. Other low hanging fruit in terms of weight reduction would be a smaller battery like a Braile or similar mounted in the stock location. This is another 15lbs or so off the nose of the car. Things like a lightweight front bumper support (since you have a cage) is another 8-10lbs off the nose. O'Yeah and dont forget the option of going with a Carbon Fiber Drive Shaft. The DSS unit only weight 17lbs if IIRC.

Depending on the size of the driver, you may be able to scrub off enough weight with the above stuff to equal not having a driver in the seat.

Lastly, if you want to get sneaky you could always start replacing bolt harware with Titanium equivalents. You ever see the weight of a bucket of bolts! :eek:
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Yes! Weight is always a big point! Here is the updated list of whats on the car

His Present modes are as follows
2013Mustang GT (auto :eek:), MM camber plates, Pagid RS29 pads, BBK LTH with cattless xpipe and straight pipe, Stoptech ST60 trophy calipers 380mm discs, Castrol SRF, FFRP brake ducts, F14 19x10 and 19x11, R6 Hoosier 295/30-19 and 315/30-19 square, -2.8 camber, 0.15 toe out, Dynatech 3.5" driveshaft, Cortex extreme Koni race coilovers 500#/350#, BMR adjustable Panhard and Front swaybar, Relocation brackets and LCA. No rear bar. Airaid carbon fiber CAI, BBK 84.5mm TB, MM 6pt roll bar. 4.10 or 3.73 rear ends. SVT tune, Boss 302 intake. Corbeau driver seat, no rear seats, no AC etc.

The mods underway or planning on ordering are this month...

Currently welding seams on unibody, BMR K member, BMR A arms, BMR rad support, Cortex Watts link, Cortex Torque Arm, Spring change for fronts from 600# to 800# and rears from 350# down to 250#, Change from SVE to Lund tune. Either A7 Hoosiers 295/315 or Pirelli slicks 305 square?

Any suggestions are very welcome
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
That is a lot of spring rate change at one time, why do you feel 800's are required up front?

One other thought is the standard oil coolers, have you considered increasing the Auto trans cooler?

Good luck with the build, post pics when possible.

302 HP
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
I guess due to our 10min track sessions the auto does not seem to have a temp problem yet. At first I thought he was crazy to race a auto but after going through several MT82 trannies, I guess he was no so far off. They did not sell manual S197 Mustangs here in Chile! Had to import my Boss directly from California

The 800#/250# setup is following the Vorshlag Big Red idea. Most of our tracks are quite tight and his main problem is traction coming out of the slower speed curves. He currently has his Koni 30's set at full hard up front and all soft in the rear as well as the BMR front sway bar on full stiff. I tried with no rear bar for a bit but did no like the understear, he on the other hand likes the setup. I will try with his old GT RSB on my Boss and see what its like.

He has a best time of 52.9 on R7's and the 800Hp GTR has a best of 50.3 with A7 slicks. Thats a big spread! My best on a set of Conti GT-I slicks is 54.3

Build pictures are in process
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Cortex track Watts Link and a Torque arm are on the way, A well as a BMR K member with adjustable A arms and Solid engine mounts. Will post results when its on the track again.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Just some pics of the upgrades that are under way on a 2013 auto Mustang GT, hopefully the sequential gear box will be ready soon in the mean time these upgrades should get it in front of of its prime enemy! a GTR on A7 Hoosiers. Before the upgrades it was 0.2 seconds behind the GTR at the last event.

Cortex Torque arms is in
IMG-20151208-WA0008_zpsxfrqkwju.jpg

Cortex Watts link
IMG-20151208-WA0007_zpsjkw6buqk.jpg

BMR K bracket with solid engine mounts
IMG-20151208-WA0009_zpszvgbesuk.jpg
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
Every thing is just bolt on! no drilling required. This Sunday is the season finally at our biggest newest track. Will see if he can take his category against the GTRs. So far he is the fastest rwd car in our series.... but more likely because he is the better driver! With his slicks he is a couple of seconds ahead of me and I have one of fastest cars in the semislick rwd category. So far my times are just a second ahead of the ZL1's on R888s
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,530
5,247
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Illinois
F.D. Sako said:
I think you have enough there to get you that 0.2sec ;D

Did you have to drill anything to install the torque arm?

Sarkis

I have the same question....likely for the same reason. If the Torque arm is a bolt on, and will clear our exhaust, she goes on the mods list!!

There is no exhaust in the photos. Makes me wonder what has to change exhaust wise, for the torque arm to fit.
 

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