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Compatibility Between Factory Magneride VDM Units - GTPP, PP2, GT350, GT350R

4
0
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
DFWTX
I'm starting to update the suspension on my '18 EBPP 201A to be something along the lines of a PP2.3 / GT230 - basically all of the handling with half of the horsepower... Magneride was the one option I had to have when I bought the car new, and I'm looking forward to getting the most out of this car as a fun commuter and occasional CAM-C toy.

Suspension upgrades include 350R springs, J&M camber plates, GT350 bars, 19x11 square with 305/30's. Ideally the car will end up sitting about like a stock GT350R so I can still navigate my driveway. I'll be installing the springs & plates over the holidays, and I'm concerned that the EBPP VDM won't be up to the task of controlling the 350R springs.

Hoping to get some insight into how the damper tuning was managed between the models where it was available. I'm guessing that my '18 EBPP tuning is pretty similar to '18+ GTPP, but reading here and on M6G it looks like the the PP2 and the GT350's are similar, but the 350R uses different small-slot dampers.

Ideally I'd like to swap the PP1 VDM with the PP2 or GT350 unit, but I don't know if there are other aspects of the Magneride system at play. Since the DSC unit is essentially plug-n-play, I'm hoping that this is true of the OEM parts as a starting point. Is there any reason this won't work?

Thanks!
 
1,097
1,063
In the V6L
I'm starting to update the suspension on my '18 EBPP 201A to be something along the lines of a PP2.3 / GT230 - basically all of the handling with half of the horsepower... Magneride was the one option I had to have when I bought the car new, and I'm looking forward to getting the most out of this car as a fun commuter and occasional CAM-C toy.

Suspension upgrades include 350R springs, J&M camber plates, GT350 bars, 19x11 square with 305/30's. Ideally the car will end up sitting about like a stock GT350R so I can still navigate my driveway. I'll be installing the springs & plates over the holidays, and I'm concerned that the EBPP VDM won't be up to the task of controlling the 350R springs.

Hoping to get some insight into how the damper tuning was managed between the models where it was available. I'm guessing that my '18 EBPP tuning is pretty similar to '18+ GTPP, but reading here and on M6G it looks like the the PP2 and the GT350's are similar, but the 350R uses different small-slot dampers.

Ideally I'd like to swap the PP1 VDM with the PP2 or GT350 unit, but I don't know if there are other aspects of the Magneride system at play. Since the DSC unit is essentially plug-n-play, I'm hoping that this is true of the OEM parts as a starting point. Is there any reason this won't work?

Thanks!
I had a look at the DSC Sport cals for the GT/GT350/GT500 and they look pretty similar, while the GT350R cal is different, presumably because of the different slot size. If I were you, I'd start by running the VDM you've got and see how it works before spending time or energy on anything else. If you're not happy with that, then look around for a PP VDM as the first alternative. One thing that's not obvious is that the VDM is a key component in the AdvanceTrak/ABS system - if it doesn't have the right set of CAN bus messages programmed in for the chassis it's installed in, you could find the car stuck in Comfort mode. The R VDM will run fine in a GT350, but there's no guarantee that a GT350 VDM will work in a PP chassis. I'm not saying it won't work, just don't be surprised if it doesn't.
 
4
0
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
DFWTX
I had a look at the DSC Sport cals for the GT/GT350/GT500 and they look pretty similar, while the GT350R cal is different, presumably because of the different slot size. If I were you, I'd start by running the VDM you've got and see how it works before spending time or energy on anything else. If you're not happy with that, then look around for a PP VDM as the first alternative. One thing that's not obvious is that the VDM is a key component in the AdvanceTrak/ABS system - if it doesn't have the right set of CAN bus messages programmed in for the chassis it's installed in, you could find the car stuck in Comfort mode. The R VDM will run fine in a GT350, but there's no guarantee that a GT350 VDM will work in a PP chassis. I'm not saying it won't work, just don't be surprised if it doesn't.

Perfect - this is the kind of info I was hoping to learn, and also that you'd chime in given what I've seen in your previous posts on the topic. The CAN relationships are something I'm completely unfamiliar with, but I'm aware exists. I'm definitely going to start with my stock box because I know it works with the stock setup, but I have my doubts about a 50%F / 37%R increase in spring rate. Fingers crossed. If it just feels out of control, I'll have to consider either going with the 350R dampers or biting the bullet and getting the DSC earlier than I had anticipated.

The DSC site says that their unit is fully compatible with the various chassis systems - do you have any idea how that is handled? I see that you have to select which version you want - GT, 350, etc. - so the CAN bus handshake seems like it has to be pretty simple and not VIN-linked or anything like that. I like having the various drive modes in this car and want to keep those intact.
 
1,097
1,063
In the V6L
Perfect - this is the kind of info I was hoping to learn, and also that you'd chime in given what I've seen in your previous posts on the topic. The CAN relationships are something I'm completely unfamiliar with, but I'm aware exists. I'm definitely going to start with my stock box because I know it works with the stock setup, but I have my doubts about a 50%F / 37%R increase in spring rate. Fingers crossed. If it just feels out of control, I'll have to consider either going with the 350R dampers or biting the bullet and getting the DSC earlier than I had anticipated.

The DSC site says that their unit is fully compatible with the various chassis systems - do you have any idea how that is handled? I see that you have to select which version you want - GT, 350, etc. - so the CAN bus handshake seems like it has to be pretty simple and not VIN-linked or anything like that. I like having the various drive modes in this car and want to keep those intact.
The DSC box has a chassis-specific firmware code that handles the CAN communications and chassis motion (height sensor) signals that are required for each different chassis. AFAIK it's not VIN locked. What I don't know is whether that code is the same for all of the Ford S550 applications or whether it's type or model-year specific. The V3 unit I have works in the GT350 and the R, but I have no knowledge of the GT and GT500 V4 units - all four might be interchangeable, or not. Of course, that's not the same for the factory VDM's. They only have to work in the car they're meant for, so there's no reason to enable them for other cars. Doesn't mean they won't work, but there's a risk. The CAN bus handshake is not simple, by the way, the Troubleshooting section of the factory service manual for the VDM has forty pages of DTC's and test procedures. It's not simple at all.
 
4
0
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
DFWTX
The DSC box has a chassis-specific firmware code that handles the CAN communications and chassis motion (height sensor) signals that are required for each different chassis. AFAIK it's not VIN locked. What I don't know is whether that code is the same for all of the Ford S550 applications or whether it's type or model-year specific. The V3 unit I have works in the GT350 and the R, but I have no knowledge of the GT and GT500 V4 units - all four might be interchangeable, or not. Of course, that's not the same for the factory VDM's. They only have to work in the car they're meant for, so there's no reason to enable them for other cars. Doesn't mean they won't work, but there's a risk. The CAN bus handshake is not simple, by the way, the Troubleshooting section of the factory service manual for the VDM has forty pages of DTC's and test procedures. It's not simple at all.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Simple may not have been the best way for me to describe the CAN handshake... :)

When you say the V3 unit "works" with the 350 and R, does that mean no errors or faults are noted, or that the driving experience and performance are identical?

I reached out to the DSC folks to ask about the differences between the versions, and which unit would be best for my project. Hopefully they can shed some light on any differences that might exist between the 350/R and others. In the interim, I'll take a look at the 2017 FSM I have and start to get a feel for the troubleshooting process and start getting my mind in the rights space to dispel the "magic".
 
1,097
1,063
In the V6L
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Simple may not have been the best way for me to describe the CAN handshake... :)

When you say the V3 unit "works" with the 350 and R, does that mean no errors or faults are noted, or that the driving experience and performance are identical?

I reached out to the DSC folks to ask about the differences between the versions, and which unit would be best for my project. Hopefully they can shed some light on any differences that might exist between the 350/R and others. In the interim, I'll take a look at the 2017 FSM I have and start to get a feel for the troubleshooting process and start getting my mind in the rights space to dispel the "magic".
It means the DSC unit can be installed in either version of a GT350 with the same firmware and it will work as advertised. The calibration files for each of the two versions are different because the springs and the dampers are different.

On the factory VDM, the GT350 and GT350R units are also interchangeable on the same basis - they won't throw codes if they're in the alternate vehicle (I have used a GT350R VDM in my GT350). What is different between the R and non-R versions of the Ford VDM is the calibration procedure. If you're looking at the service manual, compare the VDM calibration procedures between the versions you're considering - it'll might tell you if the firmware is different. For instance, on the GT350, the calibration is done with the vehicle loaded and sitting on the ground, while the GT350R is calibrated at full droop with the car in the air. I don't know why it's different, but it is.
 
77
51
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
TX
If you put 350 springs on all 4 corners, the rear for you will be oversprung IMO. The 350 damper might be able to handle it? the eco boost is 150-250lbs lighter and the rear spring motion ratio may be higher than 0.50. You would want to take the measurements for the rear, the only concern is if there is more delta than the magnaride has the capacity to adjust forces for.
 
4
0
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
DFWTX
If you put 350 springs on all 4 corners, the rear for you will be oversprung IMO. The 350 damper might be able to handle it? the eco boost is 150-250lbs lighter and the rear spring motion ratio may be higher than 0.50. You would want to take the measurements for the rear, the only concern is if there is more delta than the magnaride has the capacity to adjust forces for.

I wish I had that kind of weight problem... Based on my local CAT scales, the full-tank, me-inside weight of my car is 3,960# - 2,080 front and 1,880 rear. The 2020 GT350R that Steeda tested weighed 3,713#, with 2,005 front and 1,708 rear. I weigh 210#, so my car is 3,750#. She's a pretty pig, but she's a pig. The only claim I can make is a 1-1.5% better weight distribution than the R... I'm looking for more spring rate with a very minimal lowering of around 1/2" and the 350R springs looked better than any of the aftermarket options. With the shorter 305/30 tire, I'll be almost an inch lower overall, and that's on the ragged edge of what my driveway will tolerate.

I do worry that the 350R springs are going to want the small-slot 350R dampers to provide a higher starting point for control, but I don't know how big a deal it will be in the end. The info I've picked up from the big spring thread over on M6G has the 350 and 350R sprung the same in the rear @ 914#. The front rate on the R goes up significantly from 194# to 240#, and that's where I would have figured the problem would come in from a shock capability perspective. I'm going to see what happens with the stock MR controller first, and if it looks like a problem may throw a higher level VDM unit on the car before biting the DSC bullet.
 
77
51
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
TX
I wish I had that kind of weight problem... Based on my local CAT scales, the full-tank, me-inside weight of my car is 3,960# - 2,080 front and 1,880 rear. The 2020 GT350R that Steeda tested weighed 3,713#, with 2,005 front and 1,708 rear. I weigh 210#, so my car is 3,750#. She's a pretty pig, but she's a pig. The only claim I can make is a 1-1.5% better weight distribution than the R... I'm looking for more spring rate with a very minimal lowering of around 1/2" and the 350R springs looked better than any of the aftermarket options. With the shorter 305/30 tire, I'll be almost an inch lower overall, and that's on the ragged edge of what my driveway will tolerate.

I do worry that the 350R springs are going to want the small-slot 350R dampers to provide a higher starting point for control, but I don't know how big a deal it will be in the end. The info I've picked up from the big spring thread over on M6G has the 350 and 350R sprung the same in the rear @ 914#. The front rate on the R goes up significantly from 194# to 240#, and that's where I would have figured the problem would come in from a shock capability perspective. I'm going to see what happens with the stock MR controller first, and if it looks like a problem may throw a higher level VDM unit on the car before biting the DSC bullet.

I didn't realize the EBPP was that heavy. Since that is the case you won't have to worry about the shock's capabilities. Either front spring rate will be fine. The 194# spring would be my suggestion as it will be more comfortable than the 240#. I'd also get smaller bump rubbers or cut your existing ones since your going to be lower. I do know that you can go to the dealer and get the shocks recalibrated for the lower ride height. I don't recommend the dsc controller, not because it's bad, but imo it tries to solve a problem you don't have.
 

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