Compression braking added to AED Boss Tunes:

[Shaun@AED]

These ECU's work a little different than previous Fords.
They are Torque based and use 'Torque Based Decel'. IE, you program the torque to be used on Decel and the ECU closes the Throttle to achieve the Torque (or negative torque) on decel. If it has determined that it's not enough, it retards ignition timing. It is 100% normal to see negative ignition timing on decel. Even on the stock and track key tunes. It may not be severely retarded on the first decel, but as the ECU learns, it starts to retard more and more ignition timing. We do not have control over what timing the ECU learns to use on Decel, and the programmed Torque on decel in my tunes is Ford Factory Stock. I use TiVCT changes to increase compression braking. (Which could accentuate the decel popping, but I have not tested that theory.)

The Popping on decel is directly related to your exhaust system. The un-burnt fuel (due to severely retarded ignition timing) exiting the engine on decel can mix with fresh incoming air from the tailpipe creating a perfect mixture to burn. A little heat from the exhaust system and you get popping on decel (backfires). The larger the exhaust, the worse it can be. Exhaust leaks and cut-outs can also greatly increase this affect.

There is 1 thing we can do in the tune, but it will result in decreased compression braking and will likely not solve the decel popping completely. Plus I do not know what other effects it may have as I have not tested it myself. A tuner buddy told me about the change and said it cured the decel popping on a few customers cars.

 

[VTBoss302]

Performance- I have summarized a bit above but how about OBD II readiness for long tube headers? Shaun makes his tunes work with long tubes and high flow cats to be rear O2 on and OBD II emissions ready. Very important in states where testing is required for inspection.

Emissions compliance (my state has annual visual and OBDII readiness requirements) has been the main thing keeping me away from considering long tubes

If one of Shaun's tunes in combination with LTHs and HFCs can keep my Roadrunner emissions compliant, I would be thrilled

 

[Justin]

These ECU's work a little different than previous Fords.
They are Torque based and use 'Torque Based Decel'. IE, you program the torque to be used on Decel and the ECU closes the Throttle to achieve the Torque (or negative torque) on decel. If it has determined that it's not enough, it retards ignition timing. It is 100% normal to see negative ignition timing on decel. Even on the stock and track key tunes. It may not be severely retarded on the first decel, but as the ECU learns, it starts to retard more and more ignition timing. We do not have control over what timing the ECU learns to use on Decel, and the programmed Torque on decel in my tunes is Ford Factory Stock. I use TiVCT changes to increase compression braking. (Which could accentuate the decel popping, but I have not tested that theory.)

The Popping on decel is directly related to your exhaust system. The un-burnt fuel (due to severely retarded ignition timing) exiting the engine on decel can mix with fresh incoming air from the tailpipe creating a perfect mixture to burn. A little heat from the exhaust system and you get popping on decel (backfires). The larger the exhaust, the worse it can be. Exhaust leaks and cut-outs can also greatly increase this affect.

There is 1 thing we can do in the tune, but it will result in decreased compression braking and will likely not solve the decel popping completely. Plus I do not know what other effects it may have as I have not tested it myself. A tuner buddy told me about the change and said it cured the decel popping on a few customers cars.

i have checked all the exhaust parts for leaks. I dont have any. I have had the same exhaust for a while and have ran older versions of the tunes from before. It did not do this. The redkey tune doesn't dip and hold -9 advanced timing. The tune doesn't it from the go after a kam clear and idle relearn. Gets a little better after a few hundred miles but still bad.

This is why I asked after the most recent tunes if something was wrong cause it didn't do it before in previous tunes.

A pop pop on decel is one thing but it justs pops insanely until I either get back on the gas or push in the clutch.

 

[dmichaels]

Steve - you have no internals and you're revving to 7700 regularly? Any issues? I'm extremely impressed....

Great review on the tune. once my warranty expires I'll likely go with the same sort of tune

 

[steveespo]

Steve - you have no internals and you're revving to 7700 regularly? Any issues? I'm extremely impressed....

Great review on the tune. once my warranty expires I'll likely go with the same sort of tune

Rev to 7700 in third gear, 7500 in fourth. I don't like to hold extreme rpm too long.
Powered by Ford

 

[captdistraction]

my inner internet child says: "OMG Do want fauxshaux".

I'll have to email in on this, and maybe a couple other questions. Another public shout-out for Shaun's fantastic customer service.

 

[ford20]

He says I already have the engine braking on my tunes...I don't notice it at all. Does do this annoying thing most days where I see the timing dip to -9 and it backfires like a machine gun when I let off the gas. If that is the engine braking I could do with out it. It's so annoying. So so so so annoying. Embarrassing even. I always push in the clutch if I going to lift off of the gas. I asked to have this removed months ago. Was told it's the number 8 cylinder glitch being removed and is just something to deal with. Well it didn't do that back when I first got tunes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Hypermotive tune has that but I kind of like it. Than again there are people like you who do not like it and their tuner has been able to remove it from the tune. I found the same thing as you did though where my spark advance dips into the negatives when it pops but it has never hit -9. Normally it gets to -.3 to-3 at the most and I have only seen that about 4 or 5 times. I rarely have that issue though when I let off the throttle, only really when I down shift or and rarely when I let off the throttle at like 5K+ RPM and it is just pop once. It will sound like a machine gun if I down shift and don't let off the clutch (like keep it depressed). It wouldn't hurt to maybe talk to Jason (jayman33) about it IMO. There are tons of people on MM that have come from AED, Rev Auto, Brenspeed, Bama, and I think one or two from Lund that have switched to Hypermotive and they all say the same thing. Stock like driveability, same power as AED tunes and just a shiznit ton of fun to drive like all the great tunes you can get with these cars.

http://www.hypermotive.com/hypermotive-n-a-custom-tuning/

 

[Justin]

I have over 400 wrapped up I tunes from AED. Not looking to spend hundreds more on a tune to fix what I think shouldn't be a problem. My first tunes from aed did not do this.

What seems to have happened is aed got to big just like the rest and of course there is nothing wrong with there tune it has to be my problem same exhaust same everything only variable is the tune. Oh and the same time I go to blowing o2 sensors once a month. Again must be my car couldn't be the tune.

Sorry Sean if you can't tell I'm not all that happy with your tunes since March....and your replies to my concerns only compound my unhappiness

 

[boss man]

I have over 400 wrapped up I tunes from AED. Not looking to spend hundreds more on a tune to fix what I think shouldn't be a problem. My first tunes from aed did not do this.

What seems to have happened is aed got to big just like the rest and of course there is nothing wrong with there tune it has to be my problem same exhaust same everything only variable is the tune. Oh and the same time I go to blowing o2 sensors once a month. Again must be my car couldn't be the tune.

Sorry Sean if you can't tell I'm not all that happy with your tunes since March....and your replies to my concerns only compound my unhappiness

Question... Can you install the first tune you received from AED that worked well as you said. This way, untill you get things sorted out the car will not be a cannon.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I have over 400 wrapped up I tunes from AED. Not looking to spend hundreds more on a tune to fix what I think shouldn't be a problem. My first tunes from aed did not do this.

What seems to have happened is aed got to big just like the rest and of course there is nothing wrong with there tune it has to be my problem same exhaust same everything only variable is the tune. Oh and the same time I go to blowing o2 sensors once a month. Again must be my car couldn't be the tune.

Sorry Sean if you can't tell I'm not all that happy with your tunes since March....and your replies to my concerns only compound my unhappiness

I am not too big for my customers. (Obviously, as I am responding on a Sunday Morning at 8am)
Although I am very use to everyone blaming the tune, that is NOT the case here. I can Guaranty (I'll put $400 on it) you swap back to 100% Factory Stock exhaust and you will have NO 'machine gun' popping on decel and NO O2 problems! However, that does not mean I am not willing to modify your tune for the decel popping. Since your first post I reviewed ALL your data logs and did not see any point at which ignition timing dipped into the negative numbers.

I have not gotten any email from you since your first post requesting the test update I mentioned in my last response to you. If it's a big deal on the decel popping, I am more than willing to give the tune change a shot, but it is up to YOU to email me and request it. Bitching on a message board that I rarely visit is not the same as contacting me directly. My phone is ON from 9am to 6pm 6 days a week and I respond to ALL emails within 24hrs during normal business hours Mon-Sat.
Since I have hundreds of Boss tunes on file and I receive nearly a thousand emails each week, I need an email requesting the specific change along with your First/Last name and model year.

As far as blowing O2 sensors, that is NOT tune related, you can do a search on SVTP or other boards on what the solution is, although I've already told you it's O2 placement. O2 sensors can NOT get any moisture inside of them! (Contact ECM, Bosch, or NGK and ask them!) They MUST be placed Tip DOWN and BACK like factory stock. Most aftermarket Headers have Piss-Poor O2 placement and we have customers re-locate their O2 bungs on a weekly basis for this exact issue. Not 1 customer that has properly relocated their O2 bungs has had 1 single O2 sensor failure since. I CAN NOT FIX HARDWARE WITH SOFTWARE CHANGES!

Basic info on O2 sensors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor
*Note* Tip temperature is over 300 degrees Celsius. The tip is made of Ceramic. Any moisture that hits a Ceramic tip that is at 300+ degrees Celsius will instantly Fracture the Ceramic tip, rendering the O2 sensor Junk.

Here is a link to the appropriate O2 bung:
https://www.google.com/search?q=angled+O2+bung&client=firefox-a&hs=SWe&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=jFDeU8HsMc30oATE2oG4BA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=657

*Edit* Please excuse me if I've come off a bit on edge. I lost a dear friend this week. Compared to what happened to him, everything else seems trivial.

 

[steveespo]

ARH headers are notorious for O2 sensor corrosion. High ethanol content fuels don't help as they carry more moisture. I run ARH's and haven't had the issue luckily, but I do run some StaBil through every few tanks to collect as much water out of the tank as possible.
http://www.amazon.com/STA-BIL-22214-Fuel-Stabilizer-oz/dp/B000B68V6I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1407078997&sr=8-3&keywords=dry+gas

Steve

 

[Justin]

I sent an email you said that's normal nothing you can do. Why would I continue to email you? Your reply felt like a blow off to me.

I started complaining here cause you said you came out with a decel tune. Then you told me my last revision had this. That's when it started. So I figured that's what is causing it. I ran the trackey all winter with the same exact exhaust it didn't do it.

My data logs you have won't show it cause I didn't data log the issue just what you asked for.

I will give you that it's the design flaw of the headers for the sensors. Soon as I buy a welder I will fix the sensor placement.

Soon as I get a chance I'll send you some data logs of it being stuck on machine gun mode.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I sent an email you said that's normal nothing you can do. Why would I continue to email you? Your reply felt like a blow off to me.

I started complaining here cause you said you came out with a decel tune. Then you told me my last revision had this. That's when it started. So I figured that's what is causing it. I ran the trackey all winter with the same exact exhaust it didn't do it.

My data logs you have won't show it cause I didn't data log the issue just what you asked for.

I will give you that it's the design flaw of the headers for the sensors. Soon as I buy a welder I will fix the sensor placement.

Soon as I get a chance I'll send you some data logs of it being stuck on machine gun mode.

Your last email on the subject is dated March 3rd. I said I have not received an email since my response to you in THIS thread stating that there may be a way we can minimize the popping via tune update.

As I explained before the popping on decel IS normal with my tunes and I receive emails asking about it regularly. Some like it, others do not. It is due changes I make that remove the #8 lean condition, and we have not figured out a way to completely solve the decel popping. Some exhaust setups sound worse than others, and it seems as though the Compression braking update may accentuate the issue (based on your posts alone as I have not heard from anyone else that received the update). The track key tune does NOT have the #8 fix in it, so I am not surprised it does not pop on decel.

The data logs I have from you do show decel BTW. Below is one of your logs showing 3 decel events. Lowest spark value logged is 7.25 degrees, average spark value on decel is 20. I have 19 data logs on file from you, ALL have been reviewed thoroughly and not 1 shows a negative spark event. I am not saying it isn't happening now, just stating that I had NO knowledge of this prior to this thread (aside from an email question about if it could be removed back in March) and no data logs I've been sent from you show this either.

 

[2012Boss302]

Since my engine braking update my backfiring has gotten less. Sorry for not giving you any feedback Shaun, I love my tune...

Robert W.

 

[Shaun@AED]

Since my engine braking update my backfiring has gotten less. Sorry for not giving you any feedback Shaun, I love my tune...

Robert W.

Thanks for the update Robert.

Effectively no real correlation to the Compression brake update (TiVCT based) vs the spark retard then. That supports the data in the tune as well. Spark tables associated with the change are a little higher for low load RPM (decel condition) vs the non-compression brake tables used, but only by an average of 5 degrees.
Then again, these ECU's learn what spark is necessary to decel as commanded. IE, if the ECU determines the torque commanded (Negative) is not close enough to the torque actual (measured by the Maf), the ECU will close the throttle more, retard ignition timing more, etc.

Hmm.... Commanded Torque vs Actual. That means Maf and Throttle body will affect decel spark.

SCT released the latest version of Live Link Gen2 on 7/31/14, this update was supposed to incorporate Torque PID's. Commanded and actual, but I have not had a Boss on the dyno since to verify if the parameters were added to the Boss specific strategies. They were added to the 2013 GT500 I tuned on the 1st.

Justin, if you can do an update to the latest Live Link and add Torque commanded from driver demand and Torque actual, we may get more information on what is going on.

 

[Justin]

I'm willing to data log. Getting time to do it is the hard part. Next weekend I have it off until then I work 16 hour days. I would love to get it corrected. Here are things I have noticed:

It's worse when it's cold out. Dips to -12.

Does it the worst when engine is cold. Lessens to only higher rpm once up to 190.

I had Monday off and managed to swap the oem cat back on to see how that effects it. Still does it but not as loud.

Re reading my posts I came off poorly as I have been working long hours getting ready for a big inspection at work. So I apologize. I just want to get it sorted out.

Honestly I really can't tell there is engine braking. If there is it's very watered down compared to the trackey.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I'm willing to data log. Getting time to do it is the hard part. Next weekend I have it off until then I work 16 hour days. I would love to get it corrected. Here are things I have noticed:

It's worse when it's cold out. Dips to -12.

Does it the worst when engine is cold. Lessens to only higher rpm once up to 190.

I had Monday off and managed to swap the oem cat back on to see how that effects it. Still does it but not as loud.

Re reading my posts I came off poorly as I have been working long hours getting ready for a big inspection at work. So I apologize. I just want to get it sorted out.

Honestly I really can't tell there is engine braking. If there is it's very watered down compared to the trackey.

No worries Justin. I've not had a great week either and a bit touchy.
I can make the tune adjustment without logs and see if it cures the problem, but I do no have your email address on file, so send me an email and I will send back an updated tune for you to test.
[email protected]

 

[sadil]

+1 on Shaun's advice and support.

When I first was starting to do mods, I wanted an AED tune because I heard so many great things about it. However, I unfortunately chose to buy a iTSX from SCT (instead of a regular TSX unit) and the thing never worked well for me. I got sick and tired of calling SCT for new firmware and could not produce any decent logs for my car that didn't have my A/F ratio at -55000?????? Of course with no logs, this meant I couldn't get any logs from Shaun, so I eventually gave up and returned the car to stock tune.

I called Shaun a few times while I was dealing with my issues and a blown O2 sensor. He spoke to me for 30 mins even though I wasn't even a customer who had bought a tune. I also took his advice on O2 sensor placement, verified it with Bosch, and took my car to a welder to have the sensors turned down. My first sensor blew about 1000 kms after my ARH header install. I am now nearing 15000 kms on the new sensors and have had zero issues.

I might sell the Boss, but if I decide to keep it, I may try to get some decent logs for my car and try the AED tune, especially since engine braking is available now.

Also, my car with the off-road exhaust backfires like crazy all the time. Especially during sudden throttle changes. I love it, I was hoping for the AED to give me even more!

Sarosh

 

[forcefedcobra]

someday I'll finally install my longtubes and get an aed tune.

 

[Shaun12]

+1

someday I'll finally install my longtubes and get an aed tune.