Convince me not to buy this..

[domesticpower]

I'm considering getting a set of these front control arms from Steeda:

http://www.steeda.com/11-mustang-front-lower-control-arms-with-bushings-777-4900/

I'm getting too much tire roll over and the shoulders are wearing too quickly. Wheels are 18x9.5" wheels wrapped in 275/35/18 Michelin PSS. Camber is -2.3. I'm going to try a stiffer sidewall tire when those wear out (thinking of Bridgestone RE71R and open to recommendations!) and going to -2.5 camber but I don't think that will be enough the problem so I am hoping stiffer bushings will do the trick. Has anyone here tried them? What were their experience/impressions? Thanks in advance.

 

[mprichar87]

Pretty common on PSS with our cars. Try adding some toe-out.

 

[Swiss Boss]

Balljoints are not up to the the task of road racing.

Mine were shot after 6-7 trackdays on street tire (295 Rival)

 

[Mad Hatter]

I am happy with my BMR control arms. I have about 10 events on them so far and no problems.... And they are RED!

 

[Fabman]

I'm on BMR control arms too. had them for years. So far no problems. *Knock on wood*

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Just get the BOSS-S arms. They do come with bushings from what I'm told, you don't have to buy the $500 delrin bushing kit if you don't want to.

 

[Track50h]

+1 Ball joints Suck..

 

[Fabman]

Those don't look like extended ball joints...apparently Ford was fine with the Roll Center as is.
.....so why did so many of us need to extend them?

 

[F.D. Sako]

Because we lowered the cars?

 

[Fabman]

People have been lowering cars for decades and extended ball joints are relatively new.
I'm just not sure how necessary it really is on a modestly lowered car.
There's a lot of monkey see monkey do in racing. Always has been, always will be.
Raising the front roll center had a definite and immediate affect on my car, and I can't say that I like it, but I am working with it. Back in the day we WANTED low roll centers because it promotes traction. The downside is that it induces body roll, which we would remedy with increased roll couple. Now I'm old school and I'm willing to learn and try new things....but for me the jury is still out on the extended ball joints. If I had it to do all over again, at this point I think that I would leave them out.

 

[Grant 302]

I would pass on these for the issue of reliability of the X-11 ball joints. Well documented among several members here.

As for the benefits of the tall joint geometry, I believe in its benefits. Camber gain properties as well as roll center IMO are better off with the joints when lowered.

Even with coilovers on my GT, I run it at stock Boss geometry up front and lower the car with shorter tires.

That said, I don't have tall ball joints on my car(s). But I would, if I really wanted to lower the front another 1/2". If it were an option and cost weren't an issue, I would choose a lowered spindle first. That's essentially what you get with a tall ball joint and 1/2" of lowering.

 

[Fabman]

Depends really on how lowered we're talking about.
The cortex struts I have don't allow for much lowering before you run short on travel so in this case the car is near stock height geometry wise. I feel like the higher RC hurt me. The car stiffened up considerably since the RC is now closer to the CG (which is the whole point) and I'm not sprung nearly as stiff as others. It feels TOO stiff. The first lap with the higher RC I was like; "WTF have I done? This is terrible". Now if the car is lowered a bunch more I could totally see it....but like I said in my earlier post, I'm not sure how necessary it is on a "Modestly lowered car". My A arms slope to the outside a bunch more than I am comfortable with and my 500# springs feel like 1000#. I softened up my Front sway bar and backed the front shocks off almost all the way and it's better. But still feels way too stiff. Like I said, I am working with it, and at some point I may come to love it, but my initial impression (3 track days worth) is "Meh".

 

[Mad Hatter]

hmmm, I have the Cortex setup with the Koni shocks. With 600# front and 350# rear coil overs. I was relieved that the ride was better then the OEM boss setup at full hard setting. I think I will get a set of 250 or 275 springs for the rear though. At the track I run the Koni's full hard up front and full soft in the rear (unless its raining! then everything soft). I was happy with the way the BMR control arms turned out as they are way cheaper, and I think the ride improved with them. The car is lowered just over a inch up front an the control arms are almost parallel to the ground.

 

[Fabman]

I wonder if there are some differences in the early s197 chassis. If I lower mine that much I'd be on the bump stops.
But then, I have the JRI SA's so maybe that's part of it. I had 250's in mine and went to 325's which helped a bunch. I'm not using the 250's if you'd like to try them out if you are anywhere near me.

Ohhh...Chile'. never mind.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I wonder if there are some differences in the early s197 chassis. If I lower mine that much I'd be on the bump stops.
But then, I have the JRI SA's so maybe that's part of it. I had 250's in mine and went to 325's which helped a bunch. I'm not using the 250's if you'd like to try them out if you are anywhere near me.

Ohhh...Chile'. never mind.

I am at the other end of the world here in Chile!!

 

[Fabman]

I am at the other end of the world here in Chile!!

What sway bars are you using and where is your rear roll center?

 

[Mad Hatter]

I have the BMR adjustable bar up front, on middle setting right now and a GT 24mm bar on the rear. I tried no bar on the rear but on small tight tracks the understeer was to much for me. Same reason I tend to keep the rear control arms on the lowest setting with the three hole BMR relo bracket. The rear is lowered about 1.5" so the angle is just a little steeper then stock(I am at 5 degrees).

 

[Grant 302]

Fabman,

I can't account for *all* the differences in our cars, but even with the CorteX/JRi DA coilovers, 550#/350# springs, and 305 Pirelli scrubs...I don't think the front is stiff enough at 'stock Boss' front end geometry. I only see lowering the car reducing overall grip on track. I do see how it feels 'too stiff' for my street tires which are 265 PSS, which give up grip before the body rolls very much. On the other hand, 'P' springs at only another 1/2" lower, did not provide enough rate and/or a high enough roll center for the grip levels of various street tires between 255 and 275, P-zeros, PSS, RS-3, and even the sport comp 2s. With the P springs, I *think* I would have been better off with tall ball joints. But that's just my opinion.

Stock Boss:


GT on P-springs

 

[Fabman]

Fabman,

I can't account for *all* the differences in our cars, but even with the CorteX/JRi DA coilovers, 550#/350# springs, and 305 Pirelli scrubs...I don't think the front is stiff enough at 'stock Boss' front end geometry. I only see lowering the car reducing overall grip on track. I do see how it feels 'too stiff' for my street tires which are 265 PSS, which give up grip before the body rolls very much. On the other hand, 'P' springs at only another 1/2" lower, did not provide enough rate and/or a high enough roll center for the grip levels of various street tires between 255 and 275, P-zeros, PSS, RS-3, and even the sport comp 2s. With the P springs, I *think* I would have been better off with tall ball joints. But that's just my opinion.

Stock Boss:


GT on P-springs

Yes, my car is quite a bit higher than the stock pic you have. The control arms slope down to the outside as much as that lower picture slopes up.
The struts I have only provide about 4 inches of travel, so I'm set in the half way point. 2" up and 2" down. Possibly a bit lower. Something is not right about it.
If I set my lower control arms flat with the ground I'd be on the bumpers.

 

[Fabman]

I had them set parallel to the ground before the tall ball joints and it felt really good.
I put the tall ball joints in and it immediately went to shiznit. Feels like a truck. I'm on R comps.