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Cooling System Woes.....What am I doing wrong?

Ron Davis is your friend ( if you don't know a welder)
FABMAN's link to Kenny Brown is correct. Here it is again:
Call and talk to Rich Cottrell at Kenny Brown. 317-396-2768 They are made by Fluidyne. They will set you up with one for your model year car. Direct fit. If Rich isn't available, ask for Kenny.
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
357
345
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
and one for Ron
Not sure if their standard S197 radiator is triple-pass - don't see the baffle in the right-side tank. I'm pretty sure they's be able to convert the off-the-shelf part to triple-pass if you ask.

On further inspection, maybe the baffle is there, just done differently than Fabman's example & Kenny Brown's? Best to call and ask to make sure if you go with them.
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Not sure if their standard S197 radiator is triple-pass - don't see the baffle in the right-side tank. I'm pretty sure they's be able to convert the off-the-shelf part to triple-pass if you ask.

On further inspection, maybe the baffle is there, just done differently than Fabman's example & Kenny Brown's? Best to call and ask to make sure if you go with them.
No, those are just assembly welds where the different pieces join together.
My guess is that they will say that the triple pass is not necessary, and maybe it's not....but its worked for me and others for decades on end.
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
33
13
CA
Hello Everyone, Figured I would give the group an update:

New OEM ford water pump installed. Coolant system bled. Ambient temps of mid 90's at buttonwillow and.....still able to get the car to "overheat" (coolant temps in block reached 235°F and kept climbing but I let off). Really bummed. I am wondering now if I just have bad data. Although I do feel the car lose power as it heats up.

Does anyone have coolant temperature data for the hot side of the radiator? Cold side of the radiator? INSIDE the engine? I am under the assumption that the coolant going into the radiator is the same temperature as the coolant in the engine block. But perhaps this is not correct.

Did I notice ANY difference between the two pumps? I think maybe. Cooling seemed marginally better (maybe 10%) with the ford pump. But it was nowhere near the "cure-all" that I was hoping it would be. At this point I am going to try removing the grille at the next track event and see if there is any change.

Other than that, I am lost. Might try that FRPP fan shroud.

Any ideas?

Thanks everyone
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Hello Everyone, Figured I would give the group an update:

New OEM ford water pump installed. Coolant system bled. Ambient temps of mid 90's at buttonwillow and.....still able to get the car to "overheat" (coolant temps in block reached 235°F and kept climbing but I let off). Really bummed. I am wondering now if I just have bad data. Although I do feel the car lose power as it heats up.

Does anyone have coolant temperature data for the hot side of the radiator? Cold side of the radiator? INSIDE the engine? I am under the assumption that the coolant going into the radiator is the same temperature as the coolant in the engine block. But perhaps this is not correct.

Did I notice ANY difference between the two pumps? I think maybe. Cooling seemed marginally better (maybe 10%) with the ford pump. But it was nowhere near the "cure-all" that I was hoping it would be. At this point I am going to try removing the grille at the next track event and see if there is any change.

Other than that, I am lost. Might try that FRPP fan shroud.

Any ideas?

Thanks everyone
The GT500 fan/shroud setup should definitely be on the list of cooling mods.
 
33
13
CA
The GT500 fan/shroud setup should definitely be on the list of cooling mods.
The theory being, the extra "flaps" in the GT500 shroud help reduce pressure at the aft end of the radiator right?

Are there any other aftermarket options that would better that people are aware of? The gt500 shroud doesn't seem THAT much more free flowing than OEM...
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
The theory being, the extra "flaps" in the GT500 shroud help reduce pressure at the aft end of the radiator right?

Are there any other aftermarket options that would better that people are aware of? The gt500 shroud doesn't seem THAT much more free flowing than OEM...
yes its kind of like louvers in the hood to let air pass through. The fan also has different blades in both number and size. Its a 2 speed fan, I have mine wired on high only and have it on a toggle so its only on when I want it on like in the paddock or driving slowly. At speed the spinning blades just block the air flow and that's not helpful.
Sorry if this was mentioned before but....does the car have the A/C condenser still?
Adequate ducting to the front of the radiator?
 
33
13
CA
yes its kind of like louvers in the hood to let air pass through. The fan also has different blades in both number and size. Its a 2 speed fan, I have mine wired on high only and have it on a toggle so its only on when I want it on like in the paddock or driving slowly. At speed the spinning blades just block the air flow and that's not helpful.
Sorry if this was mentioned before but....does the car have the A/C condenser still?
Adequate ducting to the front of the radiator?
Still have AC system...sadly that's a non-negotiable for now. LOL. I have pretty decent ducting that I fabbed up. Air has very few places to go other than straight through the radiator.

I do have a big oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Still have AC system...sadly that's a non-negotiable for now. LOL. I have pretty decent ducting that I fabbed up. Air has very few places to go other than straight through the radiator.

I do have a big oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
A/C makes it a lot harder....any hole or leak in the ducting is a path for the air to go around the radiator.
I'd try to seal that up as tight as possible with duct tape or whatever.
 
33
13
CA
A/C makes it a lot harder....any hole or leak in the ducting is a path for the air to go around the radiator.
I'd try to seal that up as tight as possible with duct tape or whatever.
Man you aren't kidding. Between oil cooler lines, power steering lines, AC condenser lines and brake cooling ducts, it took me honestly 10+ hours to fab up ducting. I used a plethora of HVAC aluminum foil tape as well. It's not perfect, but it's easily 50% better than before.

Which makes me think it's not an airflow issue......
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Man you aren't kidding. Between oil cooler lines, power steering lines, AC condenser lines and brake cooling ducts, it took me honestly 10+ hours to fab up ducting. I used a plethora of HVAC aluminum foil tape as well. It's not perfect, but it's easily 50% better than before.

Which makes me think it's not an airflow issue......
Well you have to get it in there, through there and outta there.
Anyplace that necked down or leaking is shooting you in the foot.
When I first tracked my car it over heated almost immediately....after some updates it ran cool and has ever since.
Most of which we have mentioned here.
 
4,221
3,787
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Oil cooler is hanging from the front crash bar, maybe 3ish inches fore of the AC condenser.

Good point on the tstat. Stuck partially closed you're thinking?
Partially close or partially open….pretty much the same thing. You can boil it in water with a thermometer and see if it opens/closes when it’s supposed to or….they are cheap enough you can just replace it. Id just take it out right before your next track day and try running without it.
 

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