S197 Cory's Track Toy Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

[Speedboosted]

This is the Build Thread for Cory's Track Toy. Reply below.

 

[Double0Fox]

Without sounding stalkerish, where abouts in the PNW? Tacoma here.

 

[Speedboosted]

Without sounding stalkerish, where abouts in the PNW? Tacoma here.

Haha, I'm down in Battle Ground, near Vancouver.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Dang Cory, I was completely fooled, since I figured running those Apex Rims , working for Apex Rims and racing stuffff, PNW just stood for , " Pretty Nice Wheels!!!"

 

[Spencer Terry]

Love the car! I have the same wing, looks so good on these cars.

What do you think of the g6500 slicks? I scooped some as well and have them in 10.5 width. Have yet to try them, they are just sitting unfortunately... curious how they compare to some other tires you have tested?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Spencer -- dropped you a PM.

 

[Speedboosted]

Love the car! I have the same wing, looks so good on these cars.

What do you think of the g6500 slicks? I scooped some as well and have them in 10.5 width. Have yet to try them, they are just sitting unfortunately... curious how they compare to some other tires you have tested?

Thanks! I just got them a couple months ago to be honest, haven't had a chance to run on them yet. In the past I used G5000, NT01 and BFG Rival (the original). 275 NT01s were faster than 305 G5000s for me, however I had a tough time getting heat into them and I noticed the advertised "spring rate" of the G6500s are quite a bit lower so hopefully they do what I want. For the price and weight, it's tough to pass up.

Bill, I would love to hear your opinion on them as well.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Cory, I dropped Spencer a note on them ,and as usual it was a small book, but I will try to be brief and just state for those looking to do HPDEs or just fun track time the price can not be beat, but.......

Alot of us who have run the Mustang Roundup year in and year out caught on to the super discount on Continentals years back. Most of us knew Hoosier was making them for the Continental for the various Series they sponsored ( Continental purchased Hoosier a few years back). As this was when Hoosier was a separate entity many of us ran them quite awhile ago.

I have helped George Anderson ( Mgr at the Motorsports Park Hastings track ) figure out the classes over the years, mainly dealing with tires as that was the secret weapon many tried to find. Gary Gaspar ( Cloud9 ) who was very active in the early years and extremely instrumental in getting the event going worked more on the car classification to make for a nice balance of competition.

We, quite early on, realized the Contis were not super quick, and therefore unlike all the other slicks, you could run them either used or brand new and stay in the same classification as a DOT Comp. Tire. The competition stayed fairly close for a couple of years as folks bought them over Hoosier R7s m( due to price ), so no worries. That was until a majority of us realized we were running 2-3 seconds slower on a new set than a new set of Hoosiers and the price point went out the window.

I still tell folks, even beginners , if they want a good set of tires for HPDEs or just for fun , a good way to get seat time is to get a cheap set of these and go burn them up. Seat time is the number 1 way to get faster, so this price point makes the fun and experience a bit less expensive.

Time Trials , race competition, etc., you will need faster donuts if you want to have cake by the ocean , as the Contis are simply glazed too quickly to be fast.

 

[Spencer Terry]

Cory, I dropped Spencer a note on them ,and as usual it was a small book, but I will try to be brief and just state for those looking to do HPDEs or just fun track time the price can not be beat, but.......

Alot of us who have run the Mustang Roundup year in and year out caught on to the super discount on Continentals years back. Most of us knew Hoosier was making them for the Continental for the various Series they sponsored ( Continental purchased Hoosier a few years back). As this was when Hoosier was a separate entity many of us ran them quite awhile ago.

I have helped George Anderson ( Mgr at the Motorsports Park Hastings track ) figure out the classes over the years, mainly dealing with tires as that was the secret weapon many tried to find. Gary Gaspar ( Cloud9 ) who was very active in the early years and extremely instrumental in getting the event going worked more on the car classification to make for a nice balance of competition.

We, quite early on, realized the Contis were not super quick, and therefore unlike all the other slicks, you could run them either used or brand new and stay in the same classification as a DOT Comp. Tire. The competition stayed fairly close for a couple of years as folks bought them over Hoosier R7s m( due to price ), so no worries. That was until a majority of us realized we were running 2-3 seconds slower on a new set than a new set of Hoosiers and the price point went out the window.

I still tell folks, even beginners , if they want a good set of tires for HPDEs or just for fun , a good way to get seat time is to get a cheap set of these and go burn them up. Seat time is the number 1 way to get faster, so this price point makes the fun and experience a bit less expensive.

Time Trials , race competition, etc., you will need faster donuts if you want to have cake by the ocean , as the Contis are simply glazed too quickly to be fast.

Does anyone have experience with the g5000 vs the g6500? From what I am reading they are quite different? As you mentioned, spring rate recommendations are far different as well. I too got some for the $125 per tire price, as long as they are somewhat sticky I would say it’s worth it! Can’t wait to try em our!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Sorry, they are a bit stickier than the 5000s , but will not approach the A7 or R7s.......but for HPDEs they will rock and as noted, for the price they are great!!! You will have a great time on them and feel super about the seat time you will get at a much lower price than usual. Enjoy!

 

[Spencer Terry]

Sorry, they are a bit stickier than the 5000s , but will not approach the A7 or R7s.......but for HPDEs they will rock and as noted, for the price they are great!!! You will have a great time on them and feel super about the seat time you will get at a much lower price than usual. Enjoy!

I'd prefer honest feedback, much appreciated! Was just curious if someone actually rode them versus the older compound! Thanks again.

 

[Speedboosted]

I'd prefer honest feedback, much appreciated! Was just curious if someone actually rode them versus the older compound! Thanks again.

Hopefully soon I'll be able to compare! The plan is to head to Laguna Seca in mid-June, virus permitting. Last year the car was virtually identical to how it is now, only real difference will be G5000 vs G6500 tires.

 

[Speedboosted]

Does anyone have experience with the g5000 vs the g6500? From what I am reading they are quite different? As you mentioned, spring rate recommendations are far different as well.

Just to follow up here, the G6500 were definitely stickier than the G5000, but on my car I found 305/35-18 NT01s to be a full 2 seconds faster at Laguna compared to the G6500. To be fair, my toe settings were a bit out of whack and also caused them to be destroyed (on the insides) after just 8 sessions. I am done with Conti takeoff slicks, price is nice but I'd rather just run NT01s and not worry about it.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Welcome to the World of Slow but cheap slicks ------ so many of us found out the Contis were fast to wear but slow to go! Endurance spec rubber was not a fast number! I am not a fan of Nittos at all, but it does give one an idea of the speed one could expect from the Contis, and why folks even said an RE71 or Rival S 1.5 was faster!

 

[Spencer Terry]

Welcome to the World of Slow but cheap slicks ------ so many of us found out the Contis were fast to wear but slow to go! Endurance spec rubber was not a fast number! I am not a fan of Nittos at all, but it does give one an idea of the speed one could expect from the Contis, and why folks even said an RE71 or Rival S 1.5 was faster!

I jumped from a new 285 RS4 tire to a conti 6500 (8+ heat cycles) 305. My lap time dropped from 1:47’s into the mid 1:44’s at CMP running a friends car which was 3650 without driver. I would say they are very similar to the DH slick so long as the track surface is not made of sandpaper. I did, however only make it to 10 heat cycles before i saw a chord. With proper rotation I feel I would have gotten 12+ cycles (still not great).

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Spencer,

No surprise you went faster than the RS4, but the Contis are a minimum of 2 seconds slower than a used Pirelli or Michelin ( and likely that is being generous ). The Mustang Roundup, some years back, settled the debate for alot of us ( 50 or so Stangs on track ), because those of us trophying got off the Contis switched over to R7s or Pirelli used slicks and we all went at least 2 seconds faster. I literally dumped the ones I was on and sold them to a newcomer ---- and went close to 3 seconds faster on R7s. Great tire , due to cost , for someone doing HPDEs, track events , or for getting valuable seat time, but I do try to make sure folks looking for speed at a Time Trial or even W2W, the tire is not quick.

Funny, the Mustang Roundup is just a yearly event, but some folks come looking for kudos since they are running against Mustangs , with quick pilots , and it can be intense due to that since the comparison is not with guys in Corvettes, Camaros, etc. No one shows up with Contis that is serious --- in fact they are virtually non existent. Now that they are not made anymore, it is more so, but they are perfect for seat time , imho.

Thanks for your posting, because it also shows what a bit more width ( tire wise ) will often do for times on track.

 

[APEX Wheels]

I jumped from a new 285 RS4 tire to a conti 6500 (8+ heat cycles) 305. My lap time dropped from 1:47’s into the mid 1:44’s at CMP running a friends car which was 3650 without driver. I would say they are very similar to the DH slick so long as the track surface is not made of sandpaper. I did, however only make it to 10 heat cycles before i saw a chord. With proper rotation I feel I would have gotten 12+ cycles (still not great).

Have you ran DH's before? I used a set and feel there's no comparison between the Conti G6500 and the DH. The Pirelli is many seconds faster. NT01 was 2 seconds quicker than G6500 at Laguna, and the DH was about 2 seconds quicker than the NT01 around Thunderhill.

Edit- oops, wrong account

 

[Speedboosted]

Small update: A shiny new Cortex watts link arrived last month and I got the chance to install it over the weekend. I can't say enough good things about the quality and attention to detail with this kit. I went with the street version (poly/rod combo) as I have desires of doing a lot more street driving with the car in the next couple years.

I previously had a Whiteline watts that actually had a pretty bad failure I noticed right before my last event. The center pivot post cracked completely around the base and was just flopping around. I had it welded up as I was leaving the next day so no time for a replacement. To their credit, they did replace the center pivot free of charge. I only noticed this while taking it apart to adjust the roll center, so who knows how long it was like that. Overall there was about a 1/4" of play side to side. With all of that said, the fact that the Cortex watts link and the Whiteline watts link cost virtually the same, I would without a doubt go with Cortex.

I also decided to try out Lucas 85w140 gear oil and boy is it thick. Took forever to pump out of the bottle. I think next time I'll mix in some of the 85w90 to blend it down a little but either way, I hope to give the torsen a bit more bias ratio back as this is not a synthetic oil and supposedly doesn't contain friction modifier.

After talking with Filip a bit about the mid corner understeer I was experiencing, he quickly pointed out that my rear sway bar and spring rate combo was off (too low). I am using 250lb springs in the stock location with an 18mm bar. Instead of increasing the rate to an unbearable 400lbs on the street, I decided to toss the factory rear bar back on (24mm), as well as increasing the front bar to the stiffest setting. My hopes are going 2 sizes up in the rear and 1 size up in the front will not only add some roll stiffness, but also keep the car better balanced mid corner. I am a bit concerned that corner exit traction could be compromised, however my power mods are very minimal so it shouldn't be too bad.

All of this will be put to the test at the end of February at Thunderhill where I'll get to do my first ever time attack event. I've been tracking for over 6 years now and this has been a goal of mine since the beginning. Was bummed when NASA left the Northwest, so I must travel to NorCal for it. It'll be 5 mile with Turn8 on the 27th if anyone else is looking to join!

 

[67GTA]

Small update: A shiny new Cortex watts link arrived last month and I got the chance to install it over the weekend. I can't say enough good things about the quality and attention to detail with this kit. I went with the street version (poly/rod combo) as I have desires of doing a lot more street driving with the car in the next couple years.

I previously had a Whiteline watts that actually had a pretty bad failure I noticed right before my last event. The center pivot post cracked completely around the base and was just flopping around. I had it welded up as I was leaving the next day so no time for a replacement. To their credit, they did replace the center pivot free of charge. I only noticed this while taking it apart to adjust the roll center, so who knows how long it was like that. Overall there was about a 1/4" of play side to side. With all of that said, the fact that the Cortex watts link and the Whiteline watts link cost virtually the same, I would without a doubt go with Cortex.

I also decided to try out Lucas 85w140 gear oil and boy is it thick. Took forever to pump out of the bottle. I think next time I'll mix in some of the 85w90 to blend it down a little but either way, I hope to give the torsen a bit more bias ratio back as this is not a synthetic oil and supposedly doesn't contain friction modifier.

After talking with Filip a bit about the mid corner understeer I was experiencing, he quickly pointed out that my rear sway bar and spring rate combo was off (too low). I am using 250lb springs in the stock location with an 18mm bar. Instead of increasing the rate to an unbearable 400lbs on the street, I decided to toss the factory rear bar back on (24mm), as well as increasing the front bar to the stiffest setting. My hopes are going 2 sizes up in the rear and 1 size up in the front will not only add some roll stiffness, but also keep the car better balanced mid corner. I am a bit concerned that corner exit traction could be compromised, however my power mods are very minimal so it shouldn't be too bad.

All of this will be put to the test at the end of February at Thunderhill where I'll get to do my first ever time attack event. I've been tracking for over 6 years now and this has been a goal of mine since the beginning. Was bummed when NASA left the Northwest, so I must travel to NorCal for it. It'll be 5 mile with Turn8 on the 27th if anyone else is looking to join!

Hey Cory, any pics of the failed part on the Whiteline watts?

 

[Speedboosted]

Hey Cory, any pics of the failed part on the Whiteline watts?

They're on my phone so I'll message it to you. It was on the car for something like 70 track days if my math is correct so it served me well.