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Crash Lawsuit Could Be Bad News For Track Events Everywhere

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TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
3,787
2,740
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Brighton, Colorado
Seems to me there was plenty of negligence on the rider's behalf. I wouldn't dream of missing a driver's meeting. To me it as important as any other safety gear you have on your ride.
 
Seems to me there was plenty of negligence on the rider's behalf. I wouldn't dream of missing a driver's meeting. To me it as important as any other safety gear you have on your ride.
Apparently, this important safety briefing doesn't appear to be mandatory. Why is this? Why don't the governing race organizers mandate that if you miss the brief you don't race. BTW, how strictly enforced is attendence required for the pre-race briefing? Do you know?
 
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When i was 21 i was involved in a motorcycle road racing incident . Long story kinda short, myself and another racer got together in a high speed get off. Though it was his fault, i didn't pursue legal action against the track, that racer, or the organization.I knew what i signed up for. I broke my back and was paralyzed from nips down for about an hour. Damaged my spline,broke a few ribs, and a bunch of other shiznit I've forgot about.
My motorcycle was trashed, all my gear was trashed, and i missed 8 months of work. ICU for 5 days, hospital for about 7 days total. I did continue motorcycle racing though... :D Family thought i was crazy.
I can't imagine what that hospital bill would be like in 2018 dollars...;)
You sign the waiver, you assume the risks. Thats racing!

As a former motorcycle road racer, this ass hat ***ked up in that corner needing to decrease his speed for his talent level..That other rider on the track had nothing to do with this ass hats incident.
It happened in a afternoon session when this guy had how many laps to see those sand bags?o_O He grew sum balls as the day went on, then pushed it in there a little too hot. He *&%ks up on lap 10 of that afternoon session and he then has issues with the track? Really? If he had issues about those sand bags or anything else about the track say something! Or pack your shiznit and leave! Am i missing something here?
I hope this guy does'nt come within a mile of any track in country.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,530
5,247
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Illinois
What are you missing?? Lawyers. Sorry guys, i know there are lawyers on here. This just smells of over litigation. Lets hope his lawyers are charging an hourly rate regardless of outcome, and that the rider pays all the bills.
Is it possible to list this guys as a risk to track owners and operators?
As side note. I have been amused with the idea of an enclosed motorcycle. Should be fun at stop lights. LOL Where is Arte Johnson when you need him. You Old guys know what I am referring to.
 
The plantiff Kim's law firm Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP has been described as “one of the nation’s premier plaintiffs’ firms”. This firm wins very large law suits and they don't come cheap. No hourly paid lawyers here.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Having read the posts here, I am curious about how all posters here would feel if this accident occured to either them or say someone like your Dad or brother? Would you feel differently about this? There is no doubt this Kim guy is trying to milk the situation for everything he could. Sounds to me like the attornies are directing him. He is also milking this situation to benefit his business. But what would you do in his situation? Would you use this situation to benefit your business too if you could? Would you just accept what happened and move on?...even if you became a paraplegic?

My BROTHER was the one to get me started on road racing at a couple of SCCA schools here in SoCal. If he were to sue the track or organizer, I would be even MORE upset and also ashamed.

Those sandbags were not 'mis-placed' IMO. Normal for Laguna Seca if you ask me.
 

TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
3,787
2,740
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Brighton, Colorado
After this case, expect a signature to be demanded to confirm attendance.

I would certainly have no qualms about doing this.

I cannot recall the NASA RM boys ever letting anyone run that missed the driver's meeting. No refund either. I felt no pity.
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
The key to this case is whether the track owner was negligent regarding being aware of the sandbag hazard and did he inform the event coordinators about it.

I disagree. As someone else mentioned earlier, the choice was sandbags or an even bigger erosion problem. Regardless, there would have been a hazard there and it is up to the drivers to decide whether they are willing to drive with that hazard. The track owner did exactly what they needed to do by taking care of the track. The event organizers likely did what they needed to. It is 100% the fault of the driver who accepted the risk. Unless there is a legal requirement that requires the track owner to disclose every possible hazard upon renting out the track, they are under no obligation to disclose anything. It is entirely up to the customer to do their due diligence.

Once the customer has signed that contract, that's it. Game over. You agreed to everything covered in it and acknowledge that you've accepted the risks, both known and unknown, and the track owner or event organizer is free from responsibilities that aren't outlined in the contract.

"I didn't know" is not a defense when the legal requirements for all parties involved are written on paper.

If it comes out that the track owner or event organizer was required to disclose all potential hazards, the guy might have a case.
 
I disagree. As someone else mentioned earlier, the choice was sandbags or an even bigger erosion problem. Regardless, there would have been a hazard there and it is up to the drivers to decide whether they are willing to drive with that hazard. The track owner did exactly what they needed to do by taking care of the track. The event organizers likely did what they needed to. It is 100% the fault of the driver who accepted the risk. Unless there is a legal requirement that requires the track owner to disclose every possible hazard upon renting out the track, they are under no obligation to disclose anything. It is entirely up to the customer to do their due diligence.

Once the customer has signed that contract, that's it. Game over. You agreed to everything covered in it and acknowledge that you've accepted the risks, both known and unknown, and the track owner or event organizer is free from responsibilities that aren't outlined in the contract.

"I didn't know" is not a defense when the legal requirements for all parties involved are written on paper.

If it comes out that the track owner or event organizer was required to disclose all potential hazards, the guy might have a case.
Chris,

"If you go back to and read the link "RevZilla’s full story here", this article indicates the Judge, that ruled intial judgment against plantiff Kim, ruled the case could be appealed because he believed that Keigwin (owner of the event "Keigwin's at the Track" in which plantiff Kim was a participant when injured) may have been negligent in failing to inspect the track and notice the sandbag; it could have either had the sandbag moved or, perhaps, mentioned it in the riders’ meeting. This is why this appeal trial is going forward and will be heard in May. The rider Kim has a very strong legal defense team and it will be difficult for Keigwin to win this case outright.
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
Allowing an appeal does not mean he'll win or that the judge will rule in his favor.

The rider accepted the conditions of the track by choosing to participate. Far as I'm concerned, that's the end of it. The judge, the lawyers and the rider might disagree and they'd still be wrong. I'd happily tell them that right to their faces.

This is why we have have all these @#$&ed up laws. We have "crack" teams of lawyers and judges who don't bother to use common sense, they just rule based on whoever can abuse the system the best. Like I said before, I have zero sympathy for this guy. I hope he gets banned from every track forever. I'll happily donate money to help the track with legal fees.
 
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I really hope the planttif doesn’t get a single dollar. It was a track event, which are inherently dangerous. There is no way to make a track completely safe. If a person can’t or won’t accept that they can get hurt or killed, they need to stay off track.

The planttif is alledging negligence for a few sandbags that were off track. To be blunt, if he hadn’t lost control of his own motorcycle, he never would have left the track surface and hit them. What if instead of sandbags, it was a tirewall? Or a tree? Or Armco? A concrete wall? Chain link fence? A flagging station? Wild animals on track? Dry grass that will catch fire fall through spring? These are the routine hazards of the tracks I go to. I have not been nor do I need to be briefed that these are hazards. It’s simply part of the risk, and I have a responsibility as a driver to identify these hazards as part of track familiarization.

I can’t think of anyone I go to the track with that would sue over an accident, and that is a lot of people on this board.
 
We live in a "Sue" crazy world now-a-days. Lawyers will take on any case these days because they know anything is possible to win. In the old days stern and sensible Judges led the courts, but these days, not so much.This all seemed to start when that plaintiff won a case because the coffee was too hot.Lukewarm coffee for everyone from now on!
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
What if instead of sandbags, it was a tirewall? Or a tree? Or Armco? A concrete wall? Chain link fence? A flagging station? Wild animals on track? Dry grass that will catch fire fall through spring? These are the routine hazards of the tracks I go to.

Exactly.

I also think of Laguna Seca as '2 wheel friendly'. A rider should know what the run-off conditions are better than those of us in cars. When I used to ride, that was my biggest concern for going faster than cruising speed. -- Where do you go if you lay it down?

Worse yet, it looks to me like his error is a rookie one. Hard to tell from the slo-mo but there seem to be at least a few ways he could have saved it. JMO, but even street-only riders can benefit from some time in the dirt.
 
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I bet the waiver says someplace that he should inspect the track the surface and it's surroundings on it..most do.
I'm sorry, I have no mercy for this guy, back in the 80s some drag racer sued another one for staying in the gas, losing control, and wrecking the other guy, seriously injuring him. The case, as I recall was tossed and the guy was black listed, I expect the same to happen here, if this guy thinks he can show up and race he'll be sadly surprised when the track owner tells him to pound sand.
 
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Another reason why I don’t ride bikes. I go into every track day knowing that I may not leave in one piece. It’s part of the risk.

I do everything I can to make sure that I will go home without a scratch.

Laguna Seca is not a forgiving track, one late brake, wide turn or worse could be the end of you.

Just last year I almost hit the wall at turn 4 I believe. That’s about two turns after this guys accident. My slicks greased over and the car slid wide, I corrected and almost hit the wall.

In my opinion, if you are racing a bike, you are asking for it. I think they are amazing machines, but the risk is far too great.
 

drano38

Wayne
1,130
318
Agree that is sad everyone wants to sue. Track driving is a risk. We know it. Was this his first lap? Or had he come around that corner a few times already and knew the bags were there. I hope he recovers, but also hope he gets nothing from his law suit.
Last summer the Porsche club I drive with handed out the tech sticker after the drivers meeting. Not perfect control (someone could walk into the room as soon as the meeting ends) but a pretty good process, and it didn't take long because this club is so organized.
 
Unless there was something left out there by mistake or something was in improperly maintained, there is no negligence. Those were placed there and for a reason! And it’s his job to know where the dangerous parts of the track are. You choose to do this and if you get hurt get over it. He overshot the corner. Secondly, why didn’t he have the reflexes to see the sandbags and ditch the bike 10 m earlier. That, combined with his fragility (how in the f*** do you break both your legs from that) is really is his problem. He needs to either accept that this is going to happen or take up golf. If there are tracks like that, choose a different one that has really smooth run off. For example, I don’t Drive Fontana at full speed into turn one and two at 9/10’s. I don’t want to hit the wall at 140. And there are certain tracks that I would take a car, but flat out would never ride a motorcycle.

If it were me or a loved one I would feel no differently. My brother died in front of me at age 22 when I was 25 crashing into van head on. It was simple, he was simply going too fast. He made a Mistake and paid the price for it. No lawsuit or anything. But him and I have the same philosophy. Better to die at 22 on a motorcycle and lived to be 100 never having ridden one.

Tort reform is something we ABSOLUTELY need in this country.
 

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