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Does the Boss deserve its name?! (Or a marketing hype?)

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I am going to play the devil's advocate

I don't feel that Ford treated the Boss 302 that special compared to Mustang GT:

Same platform ( Boss suspension is tighter)
Same weight ( they could've thrown some aluminum in it)
Same transmission
Same rear end, come on guys, you could've put some watts link or whatever...I don't think it was so difficult
19 inch heavy wheels is also a negative point

With all honesty, apart from hot rodding the 5.0 engine, I don't think the Boss 302 is any better than Mustang GT 5.0 ( GT 302) in case you plan to modify, which we almost all do it ( obviously not stock to stock)

Think about:
Almost all of us track people are already upgrading the suspension system heavily in the Boss

Trying to cut down on the car weight

Trying to find solutions for the bad shifting mechanism

Dealing with engine overheating by installing a bigger radiator, oil cooler...etc

Come on now, Mustang GT can get modified and get same or better results.

Yes, if they made the Boss 302, I really dreamed about, it would've been more expensive, but I would happily accept a crappy interior to balance out the cost.

Does this make sense? Or I am just trying to convince myself that I am a good driver, while in fact I suck at driving?! Lol

Don't hate me
 
Re: Does the Boss deserve its name?!

13Boss#3328 said:
I am going to play the devil advocate

I don't feel that Ford treated the Boss 302 that special compared to Mustang GT:

Same platform ( Boss suspension is tighter)
Same weight ( they could've threw some aluminum in it)
Same transmission
Same rear end, come on guys, you could've put some watts link or whatever...I don't think it was so difficult
19 inch heavy wheels is also a negative point

With all honesty, apart from hot rodding the 5.0 engine, I don't think the Boss 302 is any better than Mustang GT 5.0 ( GT 302) in case you plan to modify, which we almost all do it ( obviously not stock to stock)
And how is that any different from the original 1969/1970 cars? It was and is all in the engine. There are a few BMO members that own both a 5.0 and BOSS so let's see what they have to say. Grant? ;)
 
Re: Does the Boss deserve its name?!

Never mind the title of my post

What I am trying to say is, IMHO, Ford should have done more to the chassis/inherit problems of S197, weight...etc
I know the Boss engine is to die for, but their creativity stopped there, everything else stopped there.

I don't make this thread Boss vs GT, we all know stock to stock, the Boss wins
But look at us, we are spending extra money to fix what Ford should have fixed in the first place
 
Re: Does the Boss deserve its name?!

13Boss#3328 said:
Never mind the title of my post
You can edit the name of it in your first post.

Anything can be made better. Ford set their goal of being faster on track than a M3 and they met it. It would have been nice to have a better transmission and clutch but other than that I'm fine with what we have for what we paid.
 

BLAZN BOSS

Re: Does the Boss deserve its name?!

13Boss#3328 said:
I am going to play the devil advocate

I don't feel that Ford treated the Boss 302 that special compared to Mustang GT:

Same platform ( Boss suspension is tighter)
Same weight ( they could've threw some aluminum in it)
Same transmission
Same rear end, come on guys, you could've put some watts link or whatever...I don't think it was so difficult
19 inch heavy wheels is also a negative point

With all honesty, apart from hot rodding the 5.0 engine, I don't think the Boss 302 is any better than Mustang GT 5.0 ( GT 302) in case you plan to modify, which we almost all do it ( obviously not stock to stock)

Think about:
Almost all of us, track people, are already upgrading the suspension system heavily in the Boss

Trying to cut down on the car weight

Trying to find solutions for the bad shifting mechanism

Dealing with engine overheating by installing a bigger radiator, oil cooler...etc

Come on now, Mustang GT can get modified and get same or better results.

Yes, if they made the Boss 302, I really dreamed about, it would've been more expensive, but I would happily accept a crappy interior to balance out the cost.

Does this make sense? Or I am just trying to convince myself that I am a good driver, while in fact I suck at driving?! Lol

Don't hate me

I think if you read up on your Boss you will find some inaccuarcies in your post.

yep......same frame

nope lighter car........not by a bunch but lighter, sound deadner, no frills ie; electric seats, stereo amps etc.

i'm not sure on the tranny if it has the same gear ratios in Boss's vs gt's...i think they differ, and they come with a short thorw shifter. not as short as aftermarket

nope different CA bushings, finned rear cover to cool, and although not a performance helper Boss rear axles are painted

wheels are lighter than 19" GT's

GT mustang motors dont have as good rods, crank, bearings, forged pistons, bigger valves, ported heads, intakes, altenator, fan belts, ..... Gt's may be able to track but see how long a hyperutectic piston will last under hard constant loads.

For 40K I dont know of a car you can go have fun with like these cars........yep you may have to do mods but its not a total track car, if so they wouldnt sell the FR's or R models.

I have had 100% lucky with my Boss, no trans problems, no burning oil, nothing. And there have been SS Camaro's and RT/SRT Chalengers that now believe in the Blue Oval. I used to work at 2 different dealerships and every model type will have some bad apples. This car is worthy of the name BOSS 302, but thats my opinion. we are are entitled to one.
 
Re: Does the Boss deserve its name?!

NFSBOSS said:
Anything can be made better. Ford set their goal of being faster on track than a M3 and they met it. It would have been nice to have a better transmission and clutch but other than that I'm fine with what we have for what we paid.

I agree. There's really no excuse for the transmission (and maybe the clutch) being used in this car. Everything else is easily modified.
 
13Boss#3328 said:
I am going to play the devil's advocate

I don't feel that Ford treated the Boss 302 that special compared to Mustang GT:

Same platform ( Boss suspension is tighter)
Same weight ( they could've thrown some aluminum in it)
Same transmission
Same rear end, come on guys, you could've put some watts link or whatever...I don't think it was so difficult
19 inch heavy wheels is also a negative point

With all honesty, apart from hot rodding the 5.0 engine, I don't think the Boss 302 is any better than Mustang GT 5.0 ( GT 302) in case you plan to modify, which we almost all do it ( obviously not stock to stock)

Think about:
Almost all of us track people are already upgrading the suspension system heavily in the Boss

Trying to cut down on the car weight

Trying to find solutions for the bad shifting mechanism

Dealing with engine overheating by installing a bigger radiator, oil cooler...etc

Come on now, Mustang GT can get modified and get same or better results.

Yes, if they made the Boss 302, I really dreamed about, it would've been more expensive, but I would happily accept a crappy interior to balance out the cost.

Does this make sense? Or I am just trying to convince myself that I am a good driver, while in fact I suck at driving?! Lol

Don't hate me

If what you're saying is that a Boss 302 is really nothing more than Track Pack-eqiupped stripper GT with a special tape tripe and spoiler package, tell you what. I'll buy your Boss from you for the same price as a used Track Pack GT with comparable mileage/in comparable condition is going for. ;)
 
As was stated above, the new Boss is a modern recreation of the old Boss and the old Boss was pretty much just an engine upgrade with some minor suspension tweaking over the plethora of regular mustang options you could have back in the day. It wasnt priced that much higher than a loaded GT in its day. Same holds true for the modern Boss. I think what you are looking for is a Z28. Sure...it will be special, have a great engine, great suspension and killer brakes...but it will also probably cost $25k more than an SS. That is not staying true to its history. All it is doing is slapping a classic nameplate on a car that has absolutely nothing in common with its namesake. Z28's were either 302's or 350's, they were not monstrous 427's. The Boss was never intended to be light years better than a GT, it was supoosed to be a GT that was made for the track. I think Ford accomplished that with the Boss and they did it at a price point that put in the same ballpark as a loaded GT. Sure, the trans and shifter might have a few quirks and there are some other nitpicky issues, but lets remember its a $40k ish car, not an $80k car (even though it routinely beats them too). If you want all those items on the Boss from the factory then it would have been oriced well over $60k and to me thats not what the Boss was all about.
 
cbj5259 said:
As was stated above, the new Boss is a modern recreation of the old Boss and the old Boss was pretty much just an engine upgrade with some minor suspension tweaking over the plethora of regular mustang options you could have back in the day. It wasnt priced that much higher than a loaded GT in its day. Same holds true for the modern Boss. I think what you are looking for is a Z28. Sure...it will be special, have a great engine, great suspension and killer brakes...but it will also probably cost $25k more than an SS. That is not staying true to its history. All it is doing is slapping a classic nameplate on a car that has absolutely nothing in common with its namesake. Z28's were either 302's or 350's, they were not monstrous 427's. The Boss was never intended to be light years better than a GT, it was supoosed to be a GT that was made for the track. I think Ford accomplished that with the Boss and they did it at a price point that put in the same ballpark as a loaded GT. Sure, the trans and shifter might have a few quirks and there are some other nitpicky issues, but lets remember its a $40k ish car, not an $80k car (even though it routinely beats them too). If you want all those items on the Boss from the factory then it would have been oriced well over $60k and to me thats not what the Boss was all about.

I can see what you mean, a decent way to put!
 
My answer is simple. I drove both a 2012 GT 500 and a 2012 Boss 302 at Eagles canyon raceway 30minutes apart. Best lap time in the GT500 2:08.47 / Best lap in the Boss 2:06.56 Both cars where completely stock. The GT 500 was a hand full, but pulled like mad down the straights. The Boss held its own on the straights and powered out of corners with ease. So...my question is does GT 500 deserve the Shelby name? IMO both are very deserving of the legendary names they represent. Ford could have done it better, but the cost would have kept the car out of reach for many of us, so thank you Ford for building a Boss for the masses.

A great example of doing it wrong IMO will/can be seen in the new Z28, doesn't represent it legendary name, too costly and extremely low production. What a great car, NOT! It takes more than fast lap times and mega dollars to make a great car. The Mustang has proven that time and again.
 

NeuRon

2012 500A #1626
108
0
As others have pointed out, stronger engine (not significantly more power) and better suspension compared to the GT. And that's the point; you have to compare it to the GT. It's not a different, stand-alone model but a variant.

Not sure how crappy of an interior you'd want, but the base Mustang interior (plus Recaros) is as basic as I want on a daily-driven $40k+ car. Don't forget: It's a "track-ready" street car, not a track car that's been made street legal. I think Ford nailed the intended purpose pretty good.

Sure, I wish it had 475-500HP (NA) and a better transmission and clutch. Things such as better cooling and suspension, for track use, should be items you expect to change for that purpose, just like tires. I've had no issues with cooling or lackluster suspension on the street and I'm daily-driving in a hot climate. ;)
 

jneary

Performance Fords
323
0
Norcal
I have to agree that they did it just right. The original Boss was completely based on the stock car and the ONLY updates that were done were done to the Boss cars to make them streetable and a better handling car than the base models. Tires, Spring rates, shocks and mounting of the shocks was the basic upgrade for the original Boss (have to count the strut tower bracing) and that was it for the suspension. The engine was the big difference and they spent money there (especially on the 1969 cars) and blocked off a few scoops to make it look different. In 1970, they went to pretty much standard fair with ALL cars getting some of the Boss suspension goodies (Larger spindles) and the Boss being more of a car that you could option up like the base cars.

No, I think Dave Pericak and team sat down and thought long and hard about these new Bosses and what they ended up with was something that was close to the intention of the original cars and did a great job. Believe me, I deal with engineering trade-offs in products all the time and to hit certain COGS numbers (Cost Of Goods Sold) I have to make compromises in my designs ALL THE TIME! I think they did a great job at selecting components to meet their goals. Job well done!!!

John
 
What about that sound tube and prop rod for COGS. I totally agree the Boss lives up to it's name, and this is one incredible car for the $, but I am a little miffed about those two things in conjunction with missed shifts.
 

NeuRon

2012 500A #1626
108
0
Prop rod does seem a little old-school and cheap... ...but does Ford put hood struts on any of their current cars? I'll add them but I'll keep the rod attached. Struts fail and I'd hate to need the hood to stay up for an extended period when it becomes apparent that they've become too weak to do the job (cold months first). Knocked my head on the lift gate (weakening struts) of the wife's Pathfinder several times before replacements arrived.

Not a fan of the sound tube either, really. But I understand the dilema of having made the cabin quiet and then getting (review committee ::) ) complaints that it didn't sound loud enough with the windows up and the A/C and radio on. But these are such small things to nitpick about that doing so speaks well of the car.

Trans/clutch /shifter issues are the only significant flaws, IMO. Too bad they're significant. Another 25+HP would have been nice, to increase the output difference between the Boss and the GT.
 
NeuRon said:
Prop rod does seem a little old-school and cheap... ...but does Ford put hood struts on any of their current cars? I'll add them but I'll keep the rod attached. Struts fail and I'd hate to need the hood to stay up for an extended period when it becomes apparent that they've become too weak to do the job (cold months first). Knocked my head on the lift gate (weakening struts) of the wife's Pathfinder several times before replacements arrived.

Not a fan of the sound tube either, really. But I understand the dilema of having made the cabin quiet and then getting (review committee ::) ) complaints that it didn't sound loud enough with the windows up and the A/C and radio on. But these are such small things to nitpick about that doing so speaks well of the car.

Trans/clutch /shifter issues are the only significant flaws, IMO. Too bad they're significant. Another 25+HP would have been nice, to increase the output difference between the Boss and the GT.

+1

Re: HP delta between the GT and Boss... while the Boss 302's rated peak HP isn't a whole lot higher vs. the regular 5.0 Coyote motor, power "under the curve" is significantly more stout, and you have a 7500 RPM redline vs. 7K.
 
Go to track attack, if you drive like the instructers, you need an LS, or some simple mods, if you drive like a novice the track key should do. Ford made a car for driving, and on the road even a novice can have fun way passed legal.
GTHIG 1359 out
I agree with most of the post replys, IT'S PERFECT! I almost went with the camero, my complaints, gas tax, sound, I couldn't here it!
GTHIG 1359 out
 
In one simple word yes.
I feel as if your overlooking a lot of the differences. There's a whole thread here with the differences with a regular gt

https://trackmustangsonline.com/?topic=2.0
 

jneary

Performance Fords
323
0
Norcal
prop rods and sound tubes are cheaper than struts and delete kits when you consider that these are made on the same line as all other mustangs. Its cheaper to just use what is in the line than to have a separate pull item and install. The sound tube is about $5.00 in parts and so is the rod. These are not going to get you a better transmission in the trade and its easier to leave them in on the line.

As i said earlier, it would have been nice had the Torsen option been available with the better six speed. Ah well, I have over 17,000 miles on mine now and love it!

John
 

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