Electric cars... the cons

[blacksheep-1]

Well consider this..
The government (not the free market) is basically demanding that you buy an electric car, and plug it in to the government controlled power grid.
This is now done in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, the government has to give you an incentive to purchase an EV , then plug it into an electrical grid that is run by the government and known for rolling brown/blackouts, all the while they are not improving roads or other infrastructure (BTW first read on the new "infrastructure" bill, there is less than 10% actually going to infrastructure) , and I don't recall the government building gas stations years ago, but they are willing to hose away tax dollars on charging stations. This is why the government needs to stay out of it and let the market decide. (it's also why your $1400 dollar COVID check actually cost you about $12,000) . This is really socialisms run amok.

 

[PatrickStapler]

Keep voting them in...nothing will ever change.

 

[BluPil]

Well consider this..
The government (not the free market) is basically demanding that you buy an electric car, and plug it in to the government controlled power grid.
This is now done in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, the government has to give you an incentive to purchase an EV , then plug it into an electrical grid that is run by the government and known for rolling brown/blackouts, all the while they are not improving roads or other infrastructure (BTW first read on the new "infrastructure" bill, there is less than 10% actually going to infrastructure) , and I don't recall the government building gas stations years ago, but they are willing to hose away tax dollars on charging stations. This is why the government needs to stay out of it and let the market decide. (it's also why your $1400 dollar COVID check actually cost you about $12,000) . This is really socialisms run amok.

One Point of clarification, the Government doesn't own the power grid.

 

[flyhalf]

Some fun facts
To convert all the cars in electric we would need a 30% increasing in production (i thought more)

20 "evergreen type container ships create the same pollution of ALL the cars in the planet

If we could reduce by 0.35% the emission of naval traffic we would accomplich the same results of electric coversion for cars.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Some fun facts
To convert all the cars in electric we would need a 30% increasing in production (i thought more)

20 "evergreen type container ships create the same pollution of ALL the cars in the planet

If we could reduce by 0.35% the emission of naval traffic we would accomplich the same results of electric coversion for cars.

Interesting facts. Not doubting this, can you list the source?

 

[bboyle6681]

Another fun fact:
Climate change is not some kind of apocalyptic threat. Its likely to do not much more than reduce economic growth between 2% and 5% over the next 80 years while projected growth over the next 80 years is something like 300% to 500%.
Here's an article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...bout-climate-change-is-wrong/?sh=71f9c58b12d6

I'll take 298% to 495% growth over the next 80 years as apposed to some of the more draconian measures that have been proposed. Don't get me wrong, i'm in favor of a solution to the problem that prevents the damage, but let's not lose perspective and cause more harm solving the problem than it was going to cause in the first place.

I do have to say though that high performance electric cars are one of the few things that have come out of all this that are really great. That kind of acceleration and immediate torque is just plain fun. The point A to B ones though should all be burned. Nothing as ugly as a leaf deserves to live.

 

[blacksheep-1]

One Point of clarification, the Government doesn't own the power grid.

I said government controlled. Most are actually co-ops like where I live.

 

[302BOB]

Everybody needs to eat more beans.....this may help ,some how......I had Chili last night...I doing my share....my power grid is on overdrive today!!!!!....Hon had me outside most of the day....for yard work she insisted.........................

 

[flyhalf]

Interesting facts. Not doubting this, can you list the source?

Shipping produces more carbon than most nations - it must go green

Shipping produces more carbon emissions than most countries and pollutes the oceans. Will slowing vessels or making them electric do enough?

www.google.com

Is in the transport amd environment authority

Need to go find it back

 

[302BOB]

Did anyone stop to think about all the oil workers here and abroad when our (the world's) switch to electric begins???...MacDonald's and Taco Bell can only absorb so many new employees....Mexican border runners may start a boycott!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...OH NO!!!!!!, I may be crossing the line here again............sorry!!!!!.....The Burger King, King will solve this........................He has such a Happy Face!!!!!!..........................................................................If the world can Harness Solar, Wind and even Water power, that will help us to rid our dependence on oil in the future......................................

 

[JDee]

One Point of clarification, the Government doesn't own the power grid.

It does where I live. Totally. They also own most of the old style generation, the hydro, nukes, used to own the coal plants but they're all converted to gas or shut down. I don't think there's any oil fired plants left, all converted to gas AFAIK.
The new green stuff wind and solar is mostly if not totally privately owned, some new gas plants are privately owned. But the grid is totally owned by a government owned entity.

 

[carver]

It does where I live. Totally. They also own most of the old style generation, the hydro, nukes, used to own the coal plants but they're all converted to gas or shut down. I don't think there's any oil fired plants left, all converted to gas AFAIK.
The new green stuff wind and solar is mostly if not totally privately owned, some new gas plants are privately owned. But the grid is totally owned by a government owned entity.

Ya but they want the sheep to think it's some separate entity like "Hydro One " or "Ontario Power Generation " with there own Ceo's and management grid. Massive waste of money as with all government agency's..... Every time they sh*tcan a CEO they leave with a massive cash package and then bring in another inept crony to sit there ( do nothing ) and wait for there big package.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I do have to say though that high performance electric cars are one of the few things that have come out of all this that are really great. That kind of acceleration and immediate torque is just plain fun.

It is that.

But with the sole emphasis of performance EVs being on forward acceleration, I fear that the braking and cornering aspects aren't keeping up with the 'go'. Never mind the matter of having only one speed drivetrains . . .


Norm

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The interesting thing, to me, is we are in a period of technological change that many of us TMOldsters have gone through quite a few times in our lifetimes. There are plenty of cons with Electric vehicles , from disposal of used batteries , to updating the power grid on a massive scale , to having recharging stations in out of the way locals, but.................

A few members sent me PMs, politely stating they thought I was really Pro EV, and I answered that it was not so much that as I am Pro Technology, since the reality of what has occurred is seldom what people prognosticate and fear. In the 70s and 80s, for example, we feared the death of the performance machine and look at where we are now. There are plenty of other examples, yet we see today where many would have stated a decade ago, the government was forcing us to drive econoboxes with all the EPA requirements. Yet, what has happened is the death of the small car in the US, the growth of the children of the Station Wagon ( SUVs, Crossovers, etc. ) and a legion of truck sales.

Working in the Automotive Industry for over 3 decades I just marvel at how the Industry complains vehemently about the changes , yet American Ingenuity comes forth and we vault forward with new advances and amazing options. This is why I honestly think we will see quite a few EVs in the future, but when we can not even built bridges and roads in the USA ( regardless of the Party in Power ) , who honestly thinks we will have charging stations popping up in the wilds of Nebraska, Montana, the Dakotas, West Texas, etc.?

I hope to be around to see the next generation of vehicles, but I do see Hydrogen powering trucks, a plethora of performance Hybrids, EVs and maybe something as wild as a Hydrogen/Steam Hybrid. I like noise , I want a petroleum based machine or two in my garage, but I can see myself trying something else if it is fun, interesting, and hits some of my hot buttons.

The time frames are really only estimates , because I can not remember whenever Government Goals were met in my lifetime. I actually believe we will see some radical advance within the petroleum and automotive industry due to it's massive structure and the continuing need in Third World Countries or those areas where infrastructure is still speeding along at tortoise speed. Heck, we were supposed to have advanced Internet and phone service in the wide open spaces of Nebraska and that still is not up to speed --- a goal only a decade behind schedule , ha. It is not just here , there are plenty of other places waiting and waiting and waiting.

Some sources say we are in the midst of another immense technological change and advancement, so who knows what will occur. The hurdles are huge , and they will take longer to occur than magic paper acts and proposals , but we will see many things continue in their current phase for quite awhile , imho. Till then, let the thread continue, this is an emotional discourse and actually fun to hear what others are concerned about or what the trend may actually become by the middle of the 21st Century?

 

[bboyle6681]

It is that.

But with the sole emphasis of performance EVs being on forward acceleration, I fear that the braking and cornering aspects aren't keeping up with the 'go'. Never mind the matter of having only one speed drivetrains . . .


Norm

Good point.

With regards to braking we have seen some improvement in the form of more cost effective ceramic brakes making their way into the consumer market on Porsches and such . I think cornering and braking though are being held back because the best way to improve that is by reducing weight and safety regulation has been consistently forcing cars to be heavier. This has actually driven lightweight tech but we don't really see the effect because at best it just keeps us where we are.

 

[BluPil]

It does where I live. Totally. They also own most of the old style generation, the hydro, nukes, used to own the coal plants but they're all converted to gas or shut down. I don't think there's any oil fired plants left, all converted to gas AFAIK.
The new green stuff wind and solar is mostly if not totally privately owned, some new gas plants are privately owned. But the grid is totally owned by a government owned entity.

Are you in Canada?

 

[JDee]

Are you in Canada?

Totally yes! But don't hold that against me, I didn't make it the mess it is today! The country where, as the saying goes, you can't get anything done. Typified by our fabulous vaccination rollout where we started on the lists around 43rd and have continued to sink to where we are now 53rd globally for shots as of yesterday. But most of my countrymen smugly believe we're number 1 in just about everything. Delusion is an awful thing....

 

[Norm Peterson]

Good point.

With regards to braking we have seen some improvement in the form of more cost effective ceramic brakes making their way into the consumer market on Porsches and such . I think cornering and braking though are being held back because the best way to improve that is by reducing weight and safety regulation has been consistently forcing cars to be heavier. This has actually driven lightweight tech but we don't really see the effect because at best it just keeps us where we are.

'Ceramic' seems to have become the favored buzz-word in brake pads, but I really think it's more because of low-dusting characteristics rather than performance, at least where OE, OE-replacement, and mass-market parts store pads are concerned. Move up the ladder to Carbotech XP-series or G-loc R's and it's a different story, but you're not going to see those pads fitted as mfr original equipment.

There's another aspect that I don't think gets as much mention as it perhaps should, and that's the hand-off from regenerative braking to conventional braking. Maybe the average streets-only driver won't notice it enough, or often enough. But I suspect that people driving at HPDE-level or higher would pick up on it almost every time. There's a confidence issue in that.

Time will tell if mass-market performance EVs will be anything other than SUVs/CUVs that even in EV form would be disadvantaged relative to an EV sedan or coupe of comparable power. Part of that is a matter of weight, and part of it is still going to involve CG height.


Norm

 

[blacksheep-1]

Right now you can take a gas burner, load 4 people in it, and a half ton of camping gear and go 20 miles for $2.25 (trump gas numbers). That's tough to beat, then you can let it sit there for a couple of weeks and drive it home. I don't see doing that with an EV, and range limitations will kill them, I don't see too many charging stations being a "thing" on the Appalachian trail area, and it's not like you can carry a 5 gallon can of batteries to put in your ATV when it runs low.
But, this is how it's going to happen.. IMO
Stop all fracking, pipeline and offshore drilling, stop the drilling on federal lands and in Alaska, this is easily accomplished by the green media and their fake news staff.
This will increase the cost of gas exponentially, it will have to be shipped in OPEC style like the 70s, when we had the gas crisis.
At this point motor fuel will finally become hard to get, use and be much less cost efficient. People will be forced to go electric, which is even more expensive and less cost efficient, but with the government green incentives, and the faux increase in fuel prices, it will look like a good alternative.
Plug into the government controlled grid, you are now range limited, easily tracked, at the mercy of the government for power.. just what they wanted.

 

[302BOB]

Dire predictions, but truly heard....especially those green media and fake news crews.....people beware what you take in...it might not be "exactly" the truth................