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S197 3V Fabman's build; How did we get here? Build Thread

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Boone

Professional Thread Killer
I knew nearly every nuance from that article, yet I still felt compelled to read it twice. Part of me wants to do exactly the same thing, and the other part of me wants to keep the "street" in my car (and stay married).

The final piece of the puzzle will lie in the Lap Time Thread. I'm anxious to see your progress as you get everything dialed back in. That's why I stay tuned...
 

Fabman

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2006-Ford-Mustang-SpecFab-Racing’s-Track-Monster-51-of-26.jpg2006-Ford-Mustang-SpecFab-Racing’s-Track-Monster-47-of-26.jpg2006-Ford-Mustang-SpecFab-Racing’s-Track-Monster-46-of-26.jpg2006-Ford-Mustang-SpecFab-Racing’s-Track-Monster-30-of-26.jpg
 

Fabman

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Fabman

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Fabman

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Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Going stiffer on the springs increased my front roll couple so the right thing to do is soften the sway bar and then stiffen it as circumstance allowed....but they didn't. Stiffening it with that push would only make it worse. Last time at laguna with the 500's I had the sway bar in the middle hole, then went stiffer and it (predictably) picked up a big push on exit so I put it back to the middle and the push went away. So I went bigger springs instead to add stability on corner entry. With stock cars I would go stiffer and stiffer until it picked up a corner entry push and then back off one number. Then stiffen the front bar until it picked up a corner exit push, then back off one setting. (The old "Spring in/Bar out" rule) I raced all over the country and that method worked flawlessly. A 600# spring is not too much for this car, especially with this much tire, others are running that and more with great success. Question is, Was the softer shock setting letting it bottom? I was all set to stiffen the setting as was my plan but at the last minute I second guessed myself (never do that) and went softer instead trying to gain tire compliance.

It doesn't feel like a stiff push, it feels like a "somebody knocked my toe off" push like when short track cars bang wheels...like there is something bent, or a shock is bottoming. I haven't had a chance to inspect the car but I suspect I will find something physically "Wrong" with it somewhere....I don't think its in the setup. But I won't know anything until I know, and then we'll all know. So the question is...how much faster will it be when it no longer pushes like the Queen Mary...? Certainly some amount...

Yeah, I'm just a little frustrated that I was going 1.44 and it handled perfect, now I'm going 5 full seconds faster and handles like poop. That's just wrong. There's a lot more speed on the table here if I can just get there. I wish I had more time to test, but I only got 3 sessions and while I made changes every session, I'm limited to what I can accomplish at the track in a short time frame and none of them made the car any faster. Time for a front spring change.

What changes did you make and did you try this?:

Sal try stiffening the front bar back up next event. I know it seems counterintuitive but these cars like to have strong roll resistance up front and stiff springs. You may have been getting onto the bump rubber and overloaded the outside tire. Shouldn't be to hard to change it to multiple positions at the track right?

I get what you were thinking with the spring-in/bar-out, but I think @steveespo was right. I'd stick with the 600#/in and go stiffer on the front bar and damping.

Probably a less popular suggestion, would be to raise the front a bit and reduce the static camber. How/where are the front tires wearing?
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
And maybe I should explain my suggestion a bit. I *think* softer on the bar and with the softer damping maybe running out of travel up front...which is also preventing the weight transfer from the inside wheel. I think that the push you're experiencing is making you go the wrong way with your adjustments, just like when you were softening the dampers (back in August?)
 

Fabman

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A lot has happened since then.

I sat with Filip from Cortex a good long time at the Apex show and he made some suggestions. Lower the whole car, lower the front and raise the rear and go to 375# springs out back. I pointed out that If I lowered it more I'd only have 1.25" travel up front and he assured me that was enough. I checked with the KTM championship spec mustang that I drove and it also only has 1.25" travel up front, so I went with it.

I went back to my stiffer sway bar and shock settings and 325# springs out back and lowered the whole car 3 turns on the coilovers.
The car felt way better and was slightly faster, but still not perfect.

So the next event I raised the rear to give it some rake and swapped the rear bar from 18mm to 22mm, but for some reason it rubbed on the watts link so at the last minute I swapped back to the 18mm bar and raised the watts one inch instead.
The car was about the same.

I brought something that some of you may or may not know about.
It's a holdover from my stock car days. "Spring Rubbers".
They go in between the coils to stiffen the spring real quick for testing purposes.

IMG_2371.jpg

They come in different durometer material so a yellow is soft, an orange is stiffer and red stiffer and so on. This gives you an opportunity to quickly make changes without replacing springs to see if you are going the right direction.

So I added yellows (soft) to the rear to stiffen the rear springs.
It did loosen it up as expected, but now it pushed and was loose at the same time, but was more balanced.

Then the next session I added orange rubbers to the front (Medium) to stiffen up the front as I was worried it was bottoming. The car was very balanced but didn't really bite with the front or back, it just skated. Apparently, none of these things was the magic bullet. If you're making changes and none of them seem to help, you are looking at the wrong things so put everything back to where it was when it last worked well.

So, I'm going back to my original setup in totality, including the 500# front springs and test that out on the 10th @ Laguna.

If it still sucks I'm going to blame it on the aero.
I have a whole different plan of attack if it turns out that is the case, so stay tuned.

I am going to get this thing deeper into the 30's if it kills me...and it just might.
 

Fabman

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24068173_10155906028433535_841973106042103306_n.jpg
 

ChrisM

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Reminds me of a post I saw where the import was bragging about having to run monster 275s and I was thinking "damn, that's what I have and they're barely adequate."

I need some bigger rubbers.
 

Fabman

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Fabman
Are you using the anti-squat brackets ? I removed mine after the torque arm install and it improved the balance by a lot. But I'm running a funny set up right now myself. 500 lbs front, 200lbs rear with a Strano adjustable rear bar on soft. Using the JRI singles, I'm using 24 clicks front and 45 rear, Two clicks rear for every one click front then 3 clicks stiffer on the rear, Front sway bar Eibach 36mm set in the middle. The car is planted. Just a though.
 

Fabman

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Where is the rear roll center? Above 9”?


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598
536
The watts is set to middle bottom.
I'm looking to get a 35mm front sway Like the Strano, Hellwig or Eibach so I can run 1 click for every two on the shocks..
 

Fabman

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The watts is set to middle bottom.
I looking to get a 35mm front sway Like the Strano, Hellwig or Eibach so I can run 1 click for every two on the shocks..

If you’re running a cortex Watts that’s about 9” which is what my baseline is.


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Fabman

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What’s puzzling me is that my baseline setup was fast and very good handling, so that combination works. I don’t understand what changed it other that aero. That’s a pretty big wing I got there...I probably upset the center of pressure and need to improve downforce up front.


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Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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Antman said his wing makes his car push too. He took it off and the push went away but the car also slowed down without it so he put it back on. The wing I have is much bigger than his so I suspect that may be the culprit.


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