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S197 3V Fabman's build; How did we get here? Build Thread

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Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
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20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Too be honest.... after seeing what a new block is like (full of casting flash, beads of metal and very irregular oil holes), and having to hone everything to get it to decent tolerances, I prefer building the engine... Might be sour grapes since a 5.2 XS is out of my $$$ range o_O
Mine too, but I have stellar credit. :)
The idea behind the XS is that all that good go fast and live long stuff has been done.
These motors are hand built by the same guys that build the cobra jet motors so all that has been addressed by Ford. My last motor was a super killer motor. It was my first pro built motor. (I always built my own motors) Unfortunately my expertise on motors is decades out of date. If I can buy a great motor in a box, I think I'll be money ahead to just bite that bullet. I'm not taking a chance on blowing up another motor.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
At least with the 5.2 XS you wnat have such a huge power gap compared to before!
Only 20 grand to lose 200 hp and #250 torque....such a deal!
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I’ve moved on from the moroso to the new FP350s pan but have no meaningful data yet. Nothing wrong with the moroso, I could make it drop oil pressure in hard rights but nothing seemingly dangerous


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That's what the new 5.2 XS uses, a GT350 pan. (I think)
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6675-M52
My tuner doesn't like it.
That pan requires a unique pump, so in order to use a different pan the pump also would need to be changed. Which means pulling the front of the motor and chains off.
So much for a bolt in motor in a box. Anybody else have input here?
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I’m not using that pan, the FP350 pan is this one:


https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6675-M52RR

I am using the 350 style pump but you can get a pickup tube for the regular coyote pump for this pan


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That's the same pan that was on the used motor I bought (going to get the seller to buy it back I think) My tuner didn't like this pan either. I don't know what to do...which is why I am frustrated by all this.
 

captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
That's the same pan that was on the used motor I bought (going to get the seller to buy it back I think) My tuner didn't like this pan either. I don't know what to do...which is why I am frustrated by all this.

What’s wrong with that pan? There’s two versions of it but even the older pan worked great. The new one added revised drain back and baffling for braking when they were developing the FP350S at VIR

It’s spendy, but seems to be the hot ticket for wet sump on these cars. Can always dry sump but what you get in oiling you also add in complexity


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What’s wrong with that pan? There’s two versions of it but even the older pan worked great. The new one added revised drain back and baffling for braking when they were developing the FP350S at VIR

It’s spendy, but seems to be the hot ticket for wet sump on these cars. Can always dry sump but what you get in oiling you also add in complexity


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This.

By the way. The 5.2XS has billet oil pump gears. The 12 quart FP350S pan with the 5.2 pick up would bolt right up to this motor.

Can’t see why anyone wouldn’t like it (the 12 quart pan)unless they have it confused with something else?
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
This.

By the way. The 5.2XS has billet oil pump gears. The 12 quart FP350S pan with the 5.2 pick up would bolt right up to this motor.

Can’t see why anyone wouldn’t like it (the 12 quart pan)unless they have it confused with something else?

I don’t know.....I left not knowing what the hell to do. I just picked up my parts and went home.
I was really hoping the GT 350 pan they are now selling with these motors was going to be the ticket especially since they replaced the gt 350s pan with this one. It’s a race motor, why doesn’t it have a race pan on it?

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ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
I find that in situations where I just can't find a way out and want to throw in the towel, it's best to turn it all off and find something else to do for a bit. Take your mind off of it and the reattack it at a later date. Solutions usually come shortly thereafter.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I find that in situations where I just can't find a way out and want to throw in the towel, it's best to turn it all off and find something else to do for a bit. Take your mind off of it and the reattack it at a later date. Solutions usually come shortly thereafter.

Yes, it seems the harder I try the more impossible things are....
Even throwing a huge pile of money at it won’t get it done. :(

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Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,518
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
cc845f67f4d8b5ec80d04876b9fc6bb4.jpg



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captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,954
1,698
Phoenix, Az
cc845f67f4d8b5ec80d04876b9fc6bb4.jpg



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I can relate deeply. My 2019 hasn’t had a moment of racing. 2018 ended on a high note but I can’t find my way back despite spending unreal amounts of money and even when I do get back, I won’t be competitive with peers.

I took a bit of time to see if it drew me back in (and made several semi serious attempts at unloading the car that went nowhere). Ultimately finding a new approach and format really helped. I turned off social media, unsubscribed from anything racing for about 3 weeks and cleared my head. Started fresh and went back to picking one problem at a time.

For a motor, find someone who will build you a balanced shortblock and take it from there. Completing these motors isn’t difficult but where I have had the great majority of issues is around balancing and improper tolerances/build qualities. Oem isn’t great, the lower level fpp stuff isn’t great and 3 digit shop names are terrible.

Persevere man. Break it down into digestible steps


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racer47

Still winning after 30+ years
392
497
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
SE WI
Yes, it seems the harder I try the more impossible things are....
Even throwing a huge pile of money at it won’t get it done. :(

I wish you the best of luck. You have much more persistence than I do. I'm sure that you understand that when you try to race street cars seriously, these problems never end. The constant struggle, cash flow, fab work, re-design work, etc, it takes all the fun out of racing.

Your proposed 20k crate motor gets you half way to a purpose built, tube frame, race motor, dry sump, race trans, quickchange rear RACECAR.

https://www.racingjunk.com/GT/18394...rch=ta2&quickSearch=1&np_offset=3&from=search

I've seen this car. Its owner is some rich guy who dabbles in racing. He moves from one car to the next and has a professional crew do all the work. I'm surprised it has not sold yet.

Since no one here but you fabman, will appreciate this, I'm going to post it here and apologize for kinda messing up your thread. This summer has been the most fun that I've had in racing in decades. My kid is running mini stocks on a 1/4 mi asphalt oval. It took me a couple weeks to figure out what the car needed. It took the kid a couple weeks to learn to drive it. Since then he's run with the lead pack and won 2 heats and 1 feature. All in his first 7 Saturday nights. Now that is damn good racing fun with a $2000 car, $40 tires, $35x2 pit passes and leaving the pay window at night with an average payout of $125. Circle trackers often get made of by road racers but that's only because they don't know how hard it really is.
Feature winner.jpg

First ever circle track win, in the fast heat
 
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