Fire suppression system..

[Mad Hatter]

We are finally installing a Sparco system in the Boss that has 6 nozzles... I was thinking 2 to the cabin and four to the motor... But my mechanic prefers 3 to the engine, one to the drivers peddles and the other two to the front seats... Thats probably becuase he likes to ride copilot when we set up the suspension. And advice???

 

[blacksheep-1]

How many to the fuel cell?

and what kind of system is it? halon, Co2, Foam, dry chem?
this is an area I'm very familiar with

 

[Mad Hatter]

I was hoping you would answer the question! these are the fotos of the system we have..



We have not filled it up yet, its empty. Actually not sure what we are supposed to fill it with.....

I only put in the extra fuel tank in the rear spare tire bay for our yearly three hour race, The rest of the time is with the stock tanks. Would you recommend putting a jet to the rear in any case???

 

[Bill Pemberton]

BS1 is right , I wondered also what was going back to the fuel tank??

 

[Mad Hatter]

Too be a little more precise!! I have a extra tank I plumb into the OEM tanks with a electric motor for the enduro. That way I just flip a switch when I run low... But maybe 3jets to the engine... 2 to the cabin and the last one in the rear?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Sounds like you need to go with a big fuel cell , discard your fuel tank and definitely need a sprayer going to the rear.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well done, you have purchased the absolute best fire protection system made.
Here's a brief rundown
Halon..puts out the fire but does not offer a "blanket" which, if the fuel is on metal can lead to reignition. It also occludes oxygen but for the most part that's not an issue for us since we aren't in a closet
Co2..basically same as above
Dry Chem..extinguished fire and leaves a blanket to prevent reignition, but it is very acidic and will destroy any electrical connection and damage electronics
AFF..Aqueous Film Forming Foam..extinguishes fire and provides a blanket to prevent reignition, the main component is water which is easily washed off and non corrosive. You can't use it on higher voltage electrical fires so it won't work on a Tesla but it's perfect for us. ARAFFF is used on alcohol fuels.

Now..the major players are the engine compartment because if a high pressure fuel hose or fitting should rupture it will ignite in a mist..guaranteed..lights first time, every time.
The passenger compartment, although assuming you are using at least an SFI 5 suite you should have a bit of time to get out.
The fuel tank/cell. If you are running a cell, it should be a bladder contained in a steel shell, or a spun plastic bladder (not legal anywhere I know except stock car short tracks) contained in a steel shell. If you are running the stock ballistic nylon fuel tanks you will definitely want to spray them because they are basically under the rear passenger seats and can inhibit your escape from the car.

 

[blacksheep-1]

mix it at 6% it will make you sleep better, also make darn sure you get the latest date because it does have a shelf life, I'm not sure what it is because we went through so much we never had to worry about it but you can contact the dealer, also ARAFFF can be used as well, no issues. You may contact your local fire dept, airport or fuel storage facility, they should have some lying around that they'll give you. They should be able to tell you how to charge it and maybe even do it for you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chemguard-...439580?hash=item3407ef8edc:g:wekAAOSwPg9cVwW-

 

[bob]

Stock tanks I wonder where is a good place to put a couple nozzles?

I have only seen one user serviceable fire system that's ESS firecharger but it is only SCCA legal when charged by ESS except for pre-2009 builds iirc. But since tech is annual if you fire it off no one will know you recharged it. Recert/Inspection FIA or SFI is every 2 years.

While you can physically user service that's not sanctioning body legal as far as I know. All kinds of bad things can happen for example AFF can eat the guage and give you false readings so your pressure in the heat of the day should be higher than on a cold morning. That's a down dirty way to see if the guage works. I have had 2 safecraft gages fail. Then there is a flop tube so your system works when you are inverted. OMP years ago had a recall because their broke off and then you have about 50% of the fluid rating. So inspection also checks for the suppleness and health of the flop tube. Then if you refill is your O-ring and schrader valve good? Often if the tank leak water or nitrogen pressure you never know so that guage again is pretty important. We pay blood money for the manufacturer to recertify our fire bottles but they do have all the right stuff to make sure these things work when we need them.

 

[Mad Hatter]

mix it at 6% it will make you sleep better, also make darn sure you get the latest date because it does have a shelf life, I'm not sure what it is because we went through so much we never had to worry about it but you can contact the dealer, also ARAFFF can be used as well, no issues. You may contact your local fire dept, airport or fuel storage facility, they should have some lying around that they'll give you. They should be able to tell you how to charge it and maybe even do it for you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chemguard-...439580?hash=item3407ef8edc:g:wekAAOSwPg9cVwW-

Thanks!!

 

[blacksheep-1]

Stock tanks I wonder where is a good place to put a couple nozzles?

I have only seen one user serviceable fire system that's ESS firecharger but it is only SCCA legal when charged by ESS except for pre-2009 builds iirc. But since tech is annual if you fire it off no one will know you recharged it. Recert/Inspection FIA or SFI is every 2 years..

I'm a big fan of the ESS system because it can be done by the individual, but as you say, it's not legal everywhere. with regards to Mad Hatter, he's in south America, so the rules there might be different with regards to who fills the bottle. As long as the directions are followed, it really shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Mad Hatter]

We are trying to get our rules in some sort of order now.... But most of it is based on "best efforts" so far. Out of this conversation.... When should one start thinking of a proper fuel cell vs stock fuel tanks???

 

[VoodooBoss]

Two years ago when you put the full cage in.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I kind of thought you would say that..... one more thing to do...

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well to be honest the SCCA is good with the stock ballistic nylon tanks in T4, T3 and T2, they anly start to require a cell around T1 ish. I'm not sure how I feel about that since the SCCA also outlaws ballistic nylon AFTERMARKET tanks in virtually everything.

 

[bob]

I agree with what BS1 has said. Regarding when to add a real cell...I have always been torn too since it is optional for the classes I run. I have huge respect of OEM fuel systems. They are extremely well thought out by real engineers and mountains of data and crash testing. We have to be so careful doing DIY fuel cells with no testing and no data. All kinds of bad things can happen even sometimes on pro level cars. 2 come to mind. LBGP in corvette boris said himself caught fire from a minor contact that allowed the exhaust to get too close to a fuel line and cause a car b que. Then there is the famous earnhart fire also in a corvette where was no firewall from exterior fuel fill to the fuel cell. A minor contact caused the hose to rupture and new fuel in the neck caught fire while cell was perfectly intact. Those were avoidable faults on pro-built cars. Bottom line we have to thing like chess players when designing safety systems. I would never have a fuel cell in the spare tire well of a mustang without a metal firewall as an example. I would be very careful routing fuel lines and for me they would be boxed in metal. The you got to worry about working rollover valves, and inertial switches and all that stuff that makes OEM systems safe. It actually disturbs me that I have to splice in another aftermarket fuel fitting to get a scharader valve for scrutineer fuel testing because Ford is too cheap to put a schrader valve in their fuel rails. It is just another failure point.

 

[Mad Hatter]

That has been my feeling as well, I trust a Ford OEM tank more then one we could put in..

In the end thinking of putting three jets in the engine bay, two aiming down from the main roll over bar to cover the front seats and probably the third there as well but aimed back over the rear seats

Oh, And I got them to load 6% AFF

 

[blacksheep-1]

I'm going to say this, if you buy a cell, just get Phoenix to custom build one, yes they are expensive as sin, but they scavenge every drop, have like 3 pickups and at least 2 pumps, plus a reserve sump/pump. They custom build all their stuff and it's one reason that their cars are so expensive, but also work very well. Those cells have allowed those cars to gain spots on track that normally would not have happened with an off the shelf unit. You're going to get there sooner or later anyway, so you might as well start saving money.
The problem with just 1 nozzle at the fuel tank is that there are 2 tanks to deal with, you'll need a nozzle for each., so 2/2/2 would probably be a better idea, just aim one of those in the engine compartment at the fuel line and fittings. on each side of the block from the firewall to protect the firewall/ passenger compartment.
Good job on the 6%, did they give you any grief? and where did you get it done?

 

[Mad Hatter]

One more thing to put on the piggy bank list! (instead of a Watts link )

Will follow your suggestions for the jets. 2/2/2

Had no problem filling the tank with 6% AFF, It was at a specialty shop that just does fire extiguishers. They gave the tank 12 months approval, Is that about right?? They also recomended installing the tank vertically on its head, a little more hassle, but do-able.

 

[bob]

They also recomended installing the tank vertically on its head, a little more hassle, but do-able.

Why? Is there no flop tube? Flop tube is normally seen in horizontally mounted bottle. This allows AFFF foam to be drivin out by nitrogen pressure when your car is right side up or upside down. If you have no flop tube and mount horizontally you get 50% of its rated volume expelled. If you mount on head vertically then you get 100% if car is rightside up and zero if upsidedown.