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First track outing......so frustrating!

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So I bought my 13 Boss in December and spent the summer prepping it for some track duty starting this past Sunday. I spent a lot of time reading posts here and felt I had installed the right stuff to make the car a solid runner (aluminum DS, LCA's and brackets, MGW race spec, P springs, splitter, brake ducts, race fluid, pads, stainless lines, titanium backing plates, slicks, CC plates).

I was running a new 3.5 mile layout at Pocono that used most of the front straight and much of the back straight and tunnel turn. It was a challenging course with lots of late apex turns with varied speeds, getting up to 145 mph going into turn 1.

After my first two hot laps the front brakes developed a major vibration. I was using stock rotors (8K miles) with Hawk street/race pads and I had done some attempted bedding when I installed them and then drove them on the street a few hundred miles. I thought they would be ready but I think they probably were not bedded correctly. The vibration improved with each session and by the 4th was almost resolved under hard braking but was still felt with initial light application. Bite was strong. I was thinking rotors are shot but driving home there was minimal vibration. The pedal got longer as the sessions went on and heel/toe became very difficult at the end. Maybe a bleed would help that.

The most disappointing thing was the shifter. Deep down I was hoping I would be different and I would have a slick shifting MT-82 with no lock-out. Wrong! Before the first session was out I could feel the box getting more notchy and it was very hard to get consistently clean downshifts. Then I started to get locked out of 5th which was at the worst time when I was ripping down the straights catching cars only to have to wait a second before forcefully having to jam the lever into 5th. At one point I was attempting to hit 5th right before hitting the tunnel turn....got locked out and had to coast through the turn so I didn't upset the car right at the bottom of the banking and lose it. By the time I got to the braking zone and could blip the throttle to shift I had a Vette on my ass that I had to let past. This happened every lap on both straights.

The bright spot.....the car was so fun throwing around turns! With the 21 mm rear bar and slicks I had good bite coming out of turns and it was surprisingly compliant transitioning from the infield to the oval where I could accelerate through the bumps and keep my speed onto the straight. Understeer was mild and I am sure I could fix that with better struts and some geometry changes.

Between the shitty transmission and weak brakes I am ready to sell this car and find a used GTR......those things are ungodly fast! The handling and stock power were great but........I can't see spending 8-10K on big brakes and a Tremec to get the car where I need it. It would be fine on the street but I bought this thing to flog and I can't drive it like I need to.
 
Probably should be using just a straight "race" pad. On the trans, maybe your overheating the oil? Do you have the trans cooler scoop? And did you change the factory trans oil? I have had good luck with Redline MTL. It could be the clutch hanging up a little too.
 
Yeah, I thought about the pads.....probably right there. I have new rotors ready to go so I may just get the race pads and install everything prior to the next event.

No trans scoop.......and stock fluid. Guess I can consider that for next year. After the 9/12 event I am done for the year (wife's order). Would removing the clutch return spring help? I didn't feel the clutch was sticking but if it could help I would do it.
 
I would definitely add the Trans scoop. Also the Blowfish shifter mount will eliminate missed shifts due to Transmission movement relative to the Body.

Not sure what tires your running, but with these heavy cars R-Comps or DOT Slicks will move on the rims under heavy braking -- I've given up balancing wheels as a result.....
 
Running Pirelli take-off slicks.......very happy with their performance.

I had in car video from between the seats. It's amazing how much the shifter moves under acceleration. It's no wonder we have lock-out.
 
Sorry you had those issues. Not sure what to make of your brake issues but they work fine when setup properly. Did you install DOT 4 brake fluid?

Regarding the transmission its most likely the clutch and not the trans. This has been discussed multiple times. If you're going to track the car a lot an upgraded clutch is a must.
 
I have seen statements from some members that replacing the clutch was the fix but I have also read where others did not have the same improvement after that investment. I am wary of spending money on a fix that isn't 100% although it is much less than a transmission upgrade I guess.

I am using Motul RBF 600 fluid. I am hoping that a race pad, new rotors and proper bedding will solve my issues
 
Here are my useless opinions on the issues you experienced ::)

I believe the braking issue was pad transfer. The pads were probably not bed properly at first, which are hard to do on the street. Once you started to get the pads up to temp, they started transferring material to the rotors unevenly, which created the vibrations. Also, depending on your driving experience, those hawk street/race pads are probably not up to the task. When hawk street/race (e.g. HPS, HP+) pads go above their operating temp, theyll harden and start eating your rotors away pretty quickly (per a hawk rep). So, I recommend upgrading to race pads. Race pads will also experience pad transfer if not bed properly. I've had this issue before, it really doesn't bother me... I just drive with it until it wears itself off.

As for the shifting issue, I really thing it's your clutch. I had very similar symptoms, specially with the 5th gear until my clutch hub failed and shifting became a challenge in all gears. So the shifting issues are most likely not related to the MGW shifter, unless not installed correctly. You will most likely have to upgrade your clutch, the question is do you wait until it fails, or do it beforehand :p
 
docs302 said:
I have seen statements from some members that replacing the clutch was the fix but I have also read where others did not have the same improvement after that investment. I am wary of spending money on a fix that isn't 100% although it is much less than a transmission upgrade I guess.
A lot less than a transmission. And you'll still need a new clutch with the transmission upgrade. ;) The clutch IS the problem for high RPM lockout. That's not to say a shifter upgrade or bracket won't help but they won't fix high RPM lockout. I'm not sure where you read that a clutch upgrade didn't fix high RPM lockout but if you find the thread and post # please let me know.

For the record the new GT350 has a dual disc clutch and the engineer I rode with at LS was shifting quickly and at high RPM's. We discussed this later and he explained to me how much work went into getting the clutch right on the 350. Ford knows that there was an issue with the clutch on the Bosses and they don't want to make that mistake again. I'm confident they got it right on the new car.

The transmissions do have issues but I believe the lockout issues caused by the clutch leads to many, not all, of the transmission failures.

One last thing is the only fix for the clutch sticking to the floor is to remove the helper spring. Nothing else will fix it. Even with a clutch upgrade you need to remove the spring.
 
I am ordering Hawk HT-10 pads today. I agree that it was probably pad transfer as the vibration improved as I used the pads harder each session. I will try to do a better job bedding these pads.

I think I saw the post about the clutch not working on another forum. At this point, a clutch will likely be the last thing I will try before I give up on the transmission. Unfortunately it will have to wait until next year. I will also change the fluid before the next event and see if that helps.

Thanks for the replies....will update after the next event
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,551
5,283
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Illinois
docs302 said:
I am ordering Hawk HT-10 pads today. I agree that it was probably pad transfer as the vibration improved as I used the pads harder each session. I will try to do a better job bedding these pads.

I think I saw the post about the clutch not working on another forum. At this point, a clutch will likely be the last thing I will try before I give up on the transmission. Unfortunately it will have to wait until next year. I will also change the fluid before the next event and see if that helps.

Thanks for the replies....will update after the next event

The vibration does sound like the same Issue I had with transfer. I did follow the instructions provided for bedding....except I left my brake cooling ducts open. Bad idea. The concept behind bedding the pads is that you heat up the pads and rotors and then bed. So, the Second time I bed the pads/rotors I removed the rotors and used a DA sander and cleaned the build up off the rotors first. I then taped over the air inlets of the cooling ducts and took the car on a country road and bedded the pads. Worked great.

I too thought there was real damage to something....nope, just build up.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,240
4,228
Santiago, Chile
Between the oem brakes and the gearbox, had a few doubts as well at first. Pagid pads (with all the pad bedding done right!), castrol srf and a blowfish shifter fix and all smiles again. But thats after two gear boxes and a third Ben Calimer unit waiting to be installed...... I got the blowfish unit to late to save the box I am running now.
 
ArizonaBOSS said:
GTRs are slow

If stock and driven by someone with more money than talent I might agree. But the one in my advanced run group was driven by a young AA guy about 6' 9" that put down 600+ at the wheels.....which was at lowered boost for endurance! Looked like a GT-3 car and ran like one. One second my mirror is clear, the next it's full of GTR bumper. I can wheel my car fairly well and this guy put two turns between us in 10 seconds. I see them winning races both here and in Europe so I would say their development over the years is starting to show. I think they look awesome but that's me.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,240
4,228
Santiago, Chile
The GTR maybe not everyones favorite car but boy are they fast. A competitor that was always a 0.5 seconds behind me in a 997 turbo got frustrated so he bought himself 700+ hp GTR on R888s and left me behind by 3 seconds right away....
 
06mach1 said:
docs302 states he has the MGW race spec shifter. Doesn't that eliminate the body mount like the just like BFR mount does?

That's my understanding. I think adding more crap to try and fix a crappy gearbox is just more wasted money. The MGW felt like it was the answer on the street but definitely didn't change anything on the track. I just hate putting a clutch in a car with only 9K street miles but I will try it and that's it.
 
Unfortunately Ford did not install a high rpm capable clutch behind the high rpm capable "roadrunner" 302 engine. Replacing the clutch with a better quality unit has been a common and REQUIRED upgrade for many Boss owners who track their cars. The pressure plate springs are often too weak to overcome the opposing centrifugal force at high rpms and the springs keepers in the clutch disc hub often fail and let the springs get jammed between clutch disc and either the pressure plate or flywheel. The failing spring keepers and dislodged clutch hub springs will promptly end your track day or weekend and require your car be towed home. :mad:

Last winter I installed the 1st generation MGW Race Spec shifter along with a Mcleod RST clutch and aluminum flywheel. I have not missed a shift on track since - no lockouts, no missed shifter gates.

If you want to save a few $100 on the clutch purchase, wait until December when most of the online suppliers have big discounts.
 

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