Ford's Transmission Investigation

[Comainferno]

Many Ford Mustang owners might not know that the MT-82 six speed transmission is made in China. This transmission comes in the GT, V6, and unfortunately the Boss 302. From what I understand, the Laguna Seca gets the GT500 transmission.
There have been numerous problems with this transmission and a class action suit will follow. It is unlikely that Ford will recall and swap all these transmissions. That would cost millions. I just can't believe that they would produce a Mustang with a Chinese transmission, let alone recreate a racing icon with one. Why couldn't they have just put the GT500 transmission in all the Boss's? I've been hell bent on buying one these for months. All I can hope for is that all the 2013s will get the GT500 transmission.

http://www.stangnet.com/2011/08/08/2011-mustang-2012-mustang-transmission-scrutinized/#more-5041

 

[VoodooBoss]

Welcome to BMO. To give yourself more credability it would help if you did your homework first. Both street Boss cars have the same transmission. The 302S has the GT500 transmission the the 302R has a different transmission from the others.

If you have something to add to the conversation please proceed. If not I'll lock this thread. Also please keep this conversation focused on the bad transmission and not which country made it. Ford is responsible for the end product and parts are sourced globally for all of their cars.

 

[Comainferno]

I'm sorry but I'm not following your reply. I said "from what I understand" the Laguna Seca gets the TR6060. I did not say I was sure of it.
Yes parts are sourced globally to keep costs down like the clutches that are made in Turkey, but when was the last time Detroit muscle outsourced a part of the drivetrain? I maybe corrected on this, but the Mustang engine and transmission have always been made and in the USA. For months Mustang customers have been complaining of a bad third gear. The Ford and Mustang boards are filled with nothing but complaints about the the six speed transmission and the lack of remedy from the dealers and now we know why. To think they stuffed this "upgraded" Mt-82 in the Boss is appalling.
Thanks for the welcome.

 

[VoodooBoss]

We are all aware of the transmission complaints. I'm not happy with shifting into second gear on my car when cold, it grinds far more than it should. The tone of your first post here was one of complaining about "Chinese Transmissions". Again I don't see what China has to do with this. If the transmission is faulty the country of origin is not relavent IMO. If it was made in Japan or Germany would you have the same opinion?

BTW the 5.0 engines are made in Canada. And where do you think the nickname "Windsor" came from?

 

[PJWANNABE]

My '08 Bullitt is Tex-Mex; the 4.6L engine was made in the US and the TR3650 was made in Mexico.

The TR3650 has had it's share of problems too with the synchronizers. The problems can come when you leave QC up to your supplier, in any country. I work for a global manufacturer and we find good and bad all over, athough we have had an above-average share of issues with Chinese and Mexican suppliers and operations. You just have to put in a little extra effort to keep them honest.

 

[STIG302]

We are all aware of the transmission complaints. I'm not happy with shifting into second gear on my car when cold, it grinds far more than it should. The tone of your first post here was one of complaining about "Chinese Transmissions". Again I don't see what China has to do with this. If the transmission is faulty the country of origin is not relavent IMO. If it was made in Japan or Germany would you have the same opinion?

BTW the 5.0 engines are made in Canada. And where do you think the nickname "Windsor" came from?

+1 I think he's part of a damn Camaro sleeper cell.

 

[VoodooBoss]

+1 I think he's part of a damn Camaro sleeper cell.

And that's fine if he is. My point is that China is not the only country to manufacturer a product out of spec before. If the OP can prove that the USA, Japan, and Germany have never made a defective product then he can have at it on China. In the meantime lets keep the conversation centered around the problem that Ford might be responsible for.

 

[jamse-r]

First and foremost the Boss 302 is an amazing piece of work. One that Camoinferno has been looking forward to. But as stangnet.com and allfordmustangs.com has greatly documented these issues with the transmission in the 3.7, and 5.0 6 speed manual. Mr. moderator there would be a big difference if from the beginning Ford consumer's realized that these transmission's were produced in China. Ford utilized the Borg Warner in their SVT focus and went public with this before the car was produced and yes that would be much different if it was produced in Germany or Japan. The problem is there will not be a fix for any of these transmissions and that is why there is 26,000 people suing Ford. As consumers we derserve better. This is a problem that they will not be able to remedy, it will cost them millions. But hey, as long as your happy with your boss 302 then who cares if you can't shift into gears and you grind into 2nd. Hmm last time I checked when you start grinding gears the stress starts to chip the teeth on the gears. But who cares your warranty will be up and you can pay for another one .

As for the post of he must be from the sleeper Camaro last time I checked Pontiac's came with a 400 cubic inch motor which his is bored over to a 461 Trans Am. He is like myself and is not brand loyal.

 

[STIG302]

Hey Jamse-r,
You are missing the point. You're all over the place with your post. Germany has and still does produce crap. I'm a former BMW, VW owner. Japan has it's share as well. The point is, because the Getrag MT82 Is made in China, it doesn't automatically make it crap. Getrag is a German company. In my opinion, it sounds like a material problem. Let's see what shakes out before we jump to conclusions. BTW, you seem to know a lot about Camoinferno. The sleeper cell comment was in jest, don't get wrapped around the proverbial axle.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Mr. moderator there would be a big difference if from the beginning Ford consumer's realized that these transmission's were produced in China.

Is Ford hiding that info from consumers? I knew the tranny was made in China and shockingly I bought the car anyway. I also knew there are potential tranny problems a year ago and shockingly I still bought the car. Just like here in the USA all citizens in China are innocent until proven guilty. BTW have you ever been to China? China is quite capable of building amazing things there so just because the tranny is made in China does not mean it's a POS. I'm not saying there are or are not problems with the tranny.

Continue with your discussion about the tranny just don't turn this into a China bashing thread.

 

[Comainferno]

The fact that this transmission comes in the V6 and GT, takes away from the prestige of the Boss. We all know what went into the r/d of this vehicle. This vehicle is track ready with plates. I know it is not a stretch to say that anyone of us would have paid an extra $3-5K for the Boss had it come with the TR6060. Sure the TR6060 has problems of its own, but it would have added to the value and pedigree of the car much like the GT500.

Now lets factor in that this transmission has problems and Ford knew it and they decided to deliver it with the Boss any way. Also, we can't deny that the American sentiment towards Chinese imports is not a good one and that has to be factored in. That reason alone is why Ford did not go public with the origin of the transmission.

Brass tacks, Ford should not have produced the Boss with that transmission. We as auto enthusiasts and more importantly consumers deserve better.

The Chinese transmission does not take away from the performance of the Boss, but it does take away some of its pedigree that was rightful earned in 1970 when Parnelli Jones took the Trans-Am title.
Personally, my hope is that the 2013 Boss comes with a different transmission. If it does not, I will still purchase this great vehicle hand-in-hand with the TR6060.

 

[blazer1]

If Ford does go to the TR6060 in 2013, how about all of us who purchased the 2012. What does that do to the resale value of the car. That would be an admittance on Ford's part that the Getrag is lousy, and the 2012 Boss will always be known as the year w/ the 'lousy' tranny, whether it's true or not. You certainly are correct though. What's an extra couple thousand on a $43,000.00 vehicle. Certainly not a deal killer. We all bought these cars because they are something special.

 

[Mustang Mike]

I think the issue is not the Chinese worker but more so the quality of the materials, steel and bronze, that go into the making of the transmission plus the fact that Ford has very little control over a Chinese plant versus one in Mexico or Canada. My experience with anything made in China has not been good and when it comes to metals they are not up to American standards. When gear teeth break and syncronizers come apart something is very wrong. I just hope Ford and Gertag can rectify this situation before it gets out of hand.

It is very unfair to the loyal Mustang following and owners of these cars not to do anything.

I have the Tremec, made in Mexico, in my 07 GT and have had no issues. I also have the 2011 6.7 Powerstroke also made in Mexico and it is great.

I can only relate to the nightmare with the International 6.0 and 6.4 Diesels that cost Ford millions and some very mad customers. They built their own 6.7 which is a Boss and hopefully on the way to repairing their image.

 

[bossdude]

Boy, everyone is so politically correct! I don't think it's unreasonable that purchasers of an American muscle car wish the parts were made in America. It's probably that "American" loyalty that made them want to purchase the mustang in the first place. The reality is that things are cheaper in China and sometimes quality does suffer...

Just look what happen with insulin. It was outsourced to a company in China, who outsourced it to a third company without telling anyone. That third company diluted it with something that would deliberately fool all of the quality tests and 8 people died....for money. It is all about having oversight and control. Wthout oversight, you are just hoping people motivated by money are making the ethical choices.

I personally know of another example with regards to a teflon seal. This company couldn't understand why all of their latest machines were breaking. It was because the company they sourced the teflon from changed to a less expensive non-virgin source of teflon which didn't hold up under the high pressure conditions. Wound up costing them a fortune to recall all of the machines and pay for seal replacement. They ultimately went under.

Sometimes saving money, costs more in the long run.

If there is a quality issue, Ford should just fix it and not be afraid to admit fault. They would gain respect and more customers.

 

[cloud9]

Yep there were a lot of companies in my industry (office furniture) that raced to low cost producers in China. After experiencing several quality issues, combined with the logistical delays many of them pulled production back to North America due to lower overall cost. That said, they still do source some components to China where they feel they have good quality control. We'll just have to see how the transmission issue sorts itself out. Knock on wood, mine's performed great and I've definitely put it through its paces. By this time with my GT500, the TR6060 had been replaced along with two clutches under warranty. So the TR6060 isn't without faults either.

 

[DICKD03]

An update on Mustang transmission problems. Hopefully this NHTSA investigation will result in an acceptable fix to the problem
Below is a quote from Reuters:

"August 8, 2011 - 8:46 am ET
DETROIT (Reuters) -- U.S. auto safety regulators have opened preliminary investigations into new Ford Motor Co. Mustangs with manual transmissions for possible shifting problems and diesel Volkswagen Jetta sedans for possible fuel leaks.
The NHTSA said on its Web site that it had opened a preliminary investigation into an estimated 26,000 Ford Mustangs from model years 2011-2012 over potential problems with erratic shifting almost causing collisions due to a temporary loss of power to move.[/b][/b]
The safety agency said it had received 32 consumer complaints claiming an inability to shift into gear on the manual transmission-equipped cars. Some of the complaints alleged incidents occurred while merging into high-speed traffic, and others while turning left across oncoming traffic."

 

[jimprw]

I wonder if at least some of the instances noted might have been related to skip shift. That feature is a pretty clumsy process if one isn't ready for it. Hard to imagine that would cause any grinding, but it is an unusual characteristic of these transmissions that probably many folks with previous manual transmission experience over the years have a hard time adjusting to. I know why it is there and sometimes saving a little gas is ok, but I don't think anyone with a Boss bought it thinking it would be anywhere near economical to run.

 

[Jza1736]

Skip shift doesn't work on my Boss. I've heard other people say the same thing. Believe me I'm not complaining. I havnt had any tranny issues either. Except for driver error.

 

[Mustang Mike]

My understanding is skip shift is disabled in all Boss Mustangs at the factory.

 

[cloud9]

My understanding is skip shift is disabled in all Boss Mustangs at the factory.

Nope. Works in mine, just haven't disconnected it yet. TracKey tune does disable it, but it hasn't been released yet.