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Front Alignment Issue: -3.7 Degree of Camber

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Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
939
712
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
Caster came out great. I guess my assumption of -2.5 degrees being a maximum that i should be attaining is my Achilles heal in my thought process.
For this part I think you're assuming that all Mustangs come off the production line with exactly -0.75° camber and that your plates are good for 1.75° more. My '08 measured right around -1.7° on both sides pretty much right off the truck.


Norm
 
For this part I think you're assuming that all Mustangs come off the production line with exactly -0.75° camber and that your plates are good for 1.75° more. My '08 measured right around -1.7° on both sides pretty much right off the truck.


Norm

Take note that on previous alignments my car came out standard and even side to side with no camber plates, perfectly normal after camber plate install, and came out even once after i did the K member. Additional note, same shop doing the alignment.

I did some small adjustments in ride height and updating to new hubs and studs requiring this alignment. This is where the camber came out all kattywompus and almost uncorrectably negative on the passenger side and again standard and normal on the driver side.

Ive owned the car for 3 years now and this is without a doubt the strangest most unexpected alignment result ive experienced. My results have me leaning towards a bent part from the situation detailed above, but i cant deny a k member alignment issue as i dont know how to verify.

If for some reason the car sustained a bent part, where would you start? Bent AST 4150 shock body? Bent control arms? Whats usually the first to give?
 
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Check for K-member alignment, bent shock, bent control arm, and for a bent spindle.

You should be able to swap the camber plates on your struts and then swap them side to side. If you get the same weird results, your shock are most likely not the issue.

K-member alignment is pretty easy to check. There are holes in the bottom of the k-member on each frame rail that you use for alignment. Basically you make sure the holes are centered on each side. The exact procedure using a drift in each hole is in the manual.
 
Check for K-member alignment, bent shock, bent control arm, and for a bent spindle.

You should be able to swap the camber plates on your struts and then swap them side to side. If you get the same weird results, your shock are most likely not the issue.

K-member alignment is pretty easy to check. There are holes in the bottom of the k-member on each frame rail that you use for alignment. Basically you make sure the holes are centered on each side. The exact procedure using a drift in each hole is in the manual.

Right on, thanks for the tip. I did experience a fairly abrasive shock bottoming event on the front of the car on a very poorly designed bridge transfer section in Atlanta, i wouldnt think that would cause enough of an issue to bend anything. If the Kmember checks out may just have to start throwing money at it as i dont know if i will visually be able to see bends of this nature.
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
Some caster plates have a notch or other indication to put then in for "race" or "street" alignment. Keep in mind a lot of people use these to realign the car for just lowering springs. If placed in backwards, they do this. You cant convince a lot of shops that the race side is what you want either.

What k member do you have? I dont recall them being more than bolt on...
 
Some caster plates have a notch or other indication to put then in for "race" or "street" alignment. Keep in mind a lot of people use these to realign the car for just lowering springs. If placed in backwards, they do this. You cant convince a lot of shops that the race side is what you want either.

What k member do you have? I dont recall them being more than bolt on...
Vorshlag plates, and theres no mention from vorshlag or others on install notes of being able to achieve different results with different installation methods. All the race guys with these plates (granted at higher ride heights) seem to be achieving -2.4 to max -2.7 degrees of camber.

OEM K Member, I didnt realize there enough room in the bolt holes for a Kmember to shift this far if everyones kmember theory is correct.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
OEM K Member, I didnt realize there enough room in the bolt holes for a Kmember to shift this far if everyones kmember theory is correct.

I believe it's mostly for assembly line tolerances and the way the K and engine go in from the bottom. If it was 'tight' it would take too long to get the engine/K assembly aligned to the frame.
 

Gab

Bullitthead
AST 41xx coilovers have slotted lower mounting holes, you likely don’t have both struts mounted with the lower bolt in the same position. When I installed mine, I held the spindle such that the lower bolt was touching the strut side of the slotted hole and torques the bolt. The goal here was to try and have the spindles with zero angle. Any variation would then be taken up by the C/C plates.
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
939
712
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
AST 41xx coilovers have slotted lower mounting holes, you likely don’t have both struts mounted with the lower bolt in the same position. When I installed mine, I held the spindle such that the lower bolt was touching the strut side of the slotted hole and torques the bolt. The goal here was to try and have the spindles with zero angle. Any variation would then be taken up by the C/C plates.
If you're bottoming out the bolt against either side of the slot, let me suggest filling the space that's created on the other side of the bolt with an appropriate thickness of metal. Tackweld that to a thin flat washer. Doing this for only one of the strut's tabs is probably good enough, but you might as well do both for the extra "insurance factor".

The idea here is to positively locate the bolt against any possible slippage within the holes. It's a cheap and not particularly difficult little tweak, and virtually unnoticeable once the knuckle is bolted back up.


Norm
 
Check for K-member alignment, bent shock, bent control arm, and for a bent spindle.

You should be able to swap the camber plates on your struts and then swap them side to side. If you get the same weird results, your shock are most likely not the issue.

K-member alignment is pretty easy to check. There are holes in the bottom of the k-member on each frame rail that you use for alignment. Basically you make sure the holes are centered on each side. The exact procedure using a drift in each hole is in the manual.

Just checking, you do mean service manual right? Wouldnt have an ecopy or know where i could get one would you?
 

Gab

Bullitthead
If you're bottoming out the bolt against either side of the slot, let me suggest filling the space that's created on the other side of the bolt with an appropriate thickness of metal. Tackweld that to a thin flat washer. Doing this for only one of the strut's tabs is probably good enough, but you might as well do both for the extra "insurance factor".

The idea here is to positively locate the bolt against any possible slippage within the holes. It's a cheap and not particularly difficult little tweak, and virtually unnoticeable once the knuckle is bolted back up.


Norm

Not necessary. The struts don’t slip in the slotted holes if properly torques and the difference from side to side is easily taken care of by the C/C plates. The slots just require a little more attention to assemble.

Now, if one were to use the slots for camber adjustment, then a few slugs of various sizes can help get camber in the ballpark - although this is a PITA.
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
939
712
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
a few miles east of Philly
Not necessary. The struts don’t slip in the slotted holes if properly torques and the difference from side to side is easily taken care of by the C/C plates. The slots just require a little more attention to assemble.
It still comes down to how much you're willing to trust friction against unknown loading. Friction is not a positive means of locating surfaces that can slide relative to each other. Not even at the bolt to component level where the sliding would be along the engaged thread surfaces (see "safety wire").

Now, if one were to use the slots for camber adjustment, then a few slugs of various sizes can help get camber in the ballpark - although this is a PITA.
I'm not seeing any difference whatsoever between using slugs to locate the bolts at various locations along their slots vs using slugs to locate the bolts at the extreme ends of those same slots. You're at least defining the range over which the plate adjustment covers.

Maybe I'm thinking too much like a crew chief for being just an occasional HPDE driver . . .


Norm
 

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